00:00:09: We are starting, aren't we?

00:00:10: We are starting, crazy.

00:00:11: Glad you're here.

00:00:13: Cheers. Cheers.

00:00:16: 2022, really quite young.

00:00:19: “Wehlener Sonnenuhr”, one of the greatest vineyard sites on the Moselle.

00:00:22: Grand Cru.

00:00:23: You would have said a “Yummy little Moselle” now.

00:00:25: And also a Dr. Loosen.

00:00:27: Oh, oh, oh, oh.

00:00:29: As grandpa always says: “Yummy little Moselle”. "Lecker Möselchen"

00:00:31: So light, isn't it?

00:00:33: Hi and hello at BORN TO BE WINE.

00:00:34: It's Denise again, well,

00:00:36: and this time I'm especially looking forward to our guest: Ernie Loosen

00:00:39: from the Dr. Loosen winery in Bernkastel.

00:00:42: The Moselaner has achieved

00:00:44: to bring the German Riesling into the whole world on a grand scale.

00:00:48: A true warhorse of the German wine industry,

00:00:51: a fountain of knowledge, a workaholic,

00:00:53: a passionate cook and host.

00:00:56: Ernie is always on the move,

00:00:57: so it's all the nicer that he's with us today.

00:01:00: And Philipp Wittmann from the Wittmann winery also has the one or other

00:01:04: exciting joint story.

00:01:06: As you can see, a very entertaining conversation awaits you.

00:01:10: And great wines, we'll taste them too.

00:01:12: On that note, I hope you enjoy yourselves.

00:01:14: So, grandma, she always said,

00:01:16: “Delicious Kabinettchen to drink oneself sober.”

00:01:21: She could always drink a lot, hallelujah, our grandma. That's the way it is.

00:01:23: But you can drink quite a lot of Mosel.

00:01:25: Even the dry ones are digestible.

00:01:30: We always write 12.5% at the top of the label,

00:01:32: but they are always between 12 and 12.5%.

00:01:35: They always feel so light.

00:01:37: No, that's isotonic.

00:01:38: There are so many minerals in it.

00:01:40: It nourishes the body.

00:01:42: We're in the "Gatorade business", so to speak.

00:01:47: Is the winery in Bernkastel-Kues?

00:01:49: In Bernkastel, yes.

00:01:50: I visited it last year, I was there for “Mythos Mosel”.

00:01:52: I didn't see you there. Have you been hiding?

00:01:56: But he was there.

00:01:58: I was there too.

00:01:59: I was there. Maybe he was serving wine somewhere.

00:02:02: I was upstairs in the kitchen.

00:02:05: I made the spit roast.

00:02:07: And something else.

00:02:09: I have seen sardines.

00:02:10: Did you make them too?

00:02:11: Pressed it into the can?

00:02:13: No, opened the can.

00:02:16: With love, of course.

00:02:19: I was definitely upstairs in the kitchen.

00:02:23: And then I think we did 2 masterclasses a day.

00:02:28: Upstairs, also upstairs.

00:02:29: I did that, too.

00:02:30: I didn't realize all that.

00:02:31: So I only came down later.

00:02:34: You are a passionate cook.

00:02:36: I like to cook.

00:02:38: I love to cook.

00:02:40: I'd rather be in the kitchen than in the office.

00:02:44: But that's more of a hobby.

00:02:46: Wine and food often go together.

00:02:47: Yes, but you can also just drink.

00:02:51: Even with a Moselle wine like this there's always something to go with it.

00:02:52: I have to admit, I've already finished it.

00:02:54: It's a thirsty day.

00:02:57: That's why I pour myself another drink.

00:02:59: Say something about the wine, Philipp?

00:03:01: Yes, of course it's still at the very beginning of its development.

00:03:05: The “Wehlener Sonnenuhr” is a vineyard site,

00:03:07: whose reputation actually does not build on the dry wine,

00:03:11: but rather on the classic fruity-sweet wines,

00:03:14: which are infinitely long.

00:03:16: But you can see here,

00:03:16: that it is in the complexity,

00:03:19: in the details, in the very silky mineral length,

00:03:23: which is what the vineyard site is all about, it is very complex.

00:03:26: What I find very beautiful about the wine is,

00:03:27: that at the moment, as a 2022, already has a certain open fruit,

00:03:31: which is definitely there.

00:03:31: It already has this yellow, juicy texture.

00:03:35: It's also not heavily laced with yeasty notes or anything,

00:03:39: that would make it complicated.

00:03:41: That's very nice and accessible.

00:03:44: On the other hand, you notice this complexity,

00:03:47: this is still very firm and very closed on the palate.

00:03:51: That will probably be in a few years

00:03:53: open like a bunch of flowers and

00:03:54: then you get all the wonderful facets.

00:03:57: 2022 was a dry year.

00:03:59: Also on the Moselle, I think it was similar for you.

00:04:02: You were holding your breath in summer,

00:04:05: because a little water was also missing.

00:04:08: But these will probably be old vines again.

00:04:11: Ancient. Ancient vines. It even says: “Old vines”.

00:04:13: This is also still root-authentic.

00:04:17: Over 100 years old.

00:04:19: And that's what makes this wine.

00:04:20: The vineyard came into the family in 1911.

00:04:23: It has been with us for 112 years, 113 years already.

00:04:26: It has never been replanted, it's all still root-authentic.

00:04:29: And liked these...

00:04:31: The phylloxera? It just doesn't like the Moselle.

00:04:34: It always bites its teeth out in all the

00:04:37: slate stones.

00:04:39: Oh, that's how it is.

00:04:40: No, that simply has to do with the skeleton-rich soils.

00:04:42: Like sandy soils, the more skeleton-rich a soil is,

00:04:45: the more drainage a soil has, the more permeable it is,

00:04:49: like sandy soil, the less Phylloxera can live in it.

00:04:52: So the phylloxera. It's because

00:04:53: we have almost only one meter of topsoil here and

00:04:57: 60% of the topsoil is all stone.

00:05:00: Then comes the sheer rock and the vines go right into the rock,

00:05:02: the Phylloxera doesn't come in at all.

00:05:06: How small-scale is it for you in the "Sonnenuhr" concerning the plots?

00:05:10: We have the large plots,

00:05:13: got them back during the land consolidation.

00:05:15: That's why you never had to replant them.

00:05:19: Because small plots, they leveled them at some point,

00:05:21: and you had to replant them.

00:05:22: We got back seven hectares in the “Wehlener Sonnenuhr”.

00:05:26: Wow. Yes, after Prüm, after J.J. Prüm,

00:05:27: we are the second largest “Sonnenuhr” owners.

00:05:30: And three large parcels of land,

00:05:34: where my cousins plot was also located close by,

00:05:37: who from our great-grandfather

00:05:41: inherited all the vineyards,

00:05:43: I got those too.

00:05:45: And that's where the big plots came from.

00:05:47: And we didn't have to replant them.

00:05:49: They had never been replanted before the land consolidation,

00:05:50: I never replanted them either.

00:05:51: It's great to have vines that old.

00:05:55: About 3, 4 hectares, 4.5 hectares,

00:05:59: we still have root-authentic.

00:06:00: So over 100 years.

00:06:02: And we don't replant them either.

00:06:04: And you can tell with a vine like that,

00:06:05: when it has over 100 years under its belt,

00:06:08: that she's somehow a bit...

00:06:10: One of the reasons is, I think,

00:06:12: that's what the French do,

00:06:15: called “Massale selection”.

00:06:16: That's basically...

00:06:18: ...I once asked Dr. Deckers,

00:06:21: that's the luminary in Germany,

00:06:23: as far as the history of German wine is concerned.

00:06:26: Great presentations, by the way.

00:06:27: If you ever get the chance,

00:06:30: to hear one of his lectures,

00:06:31: that's super exciting.

00:06:33: So not boring at all,

00:06:34: you don't fall asleep.

00:06:36: And you still learn something.

00:06:38: And I asked him once,

00:06:39: they always say that

00:06:41: Riesling has a 200-year tradition on the Moselle,

00:06:44: because the last Prince Elector,

00:06:46: a Clemens-Wenzeslaus, a Saxon prince,

00:06:49: who was Electoral Prince and Archbishop of Trier,

00:06:52: has issued an edict,

00:06:57: that was in 1787.

00:06:59: And it was determined in the edict,

00:07:03: that only Riesling should be cultivated.

00:07:05: Now, of course, you can say that they have not

00:07:06: ran out for the next few years and tore everything out

00:07:08: and planted Riesling.

00:07:11: Before that, everything was mixed set.

00:07:12: But everyone who replanted then had to plant Riesling?

00:07:14: They then planted Riesling.

00:07:16: And Dr. Deckers said,

00:07:18: here with us on the Middle Moselle

00:07:20: you could say that between

00:07:23: 1850 and 1870,

00:07:25: so in principle more or less, but not 100% either,

00:07:28: but 70% were converted

00:07:31: to Riesling.

00:07:32: Therefore I assume that,

00:07:33: many of these vineyard sites, if the 1911

00:07:36: came into our possession,

00:07:38: 113 years ago,

00:07:40: he wasn't 20 years old then,

00:07:42: it was already an old vineyard.

00:07:44: Because they didn't anyway...

00:07:46: ...it took them ages to replant.

00:07:48: So I'm going to assume that,

00:07:49: an original conversion

00:07:53: from this mixed set at some point

00:07:55: in 1872, 1875,

00:07:57: no idea, was done on Riesling.

00:07:59: And after that they did

00:08:00: the “eternal viticulture”.

00:08:03: That is, if you found a dead grapevine,

00:08:05: you made a new one...

00:08:07: so you did not have to

00:08:09: have any grafted vines,

00:08:11: they simply took 2 or 3 vines

00:08:13: from an old grapevine

00:08:15: cut it off and then simply put it back into the ground.

00:08:17: That's what we did until 10 or 15 years ago,

00:08:20: but we don't do that anymore.

00:08:23: Instead we do, I'll say,

00:08:26: 10,000 cuttings we do like this,

00:08:28: how do you say, cutting seedlings

00:08:29: from the old vineyard

00:08:31: and then school them.

00:08:33: But they are very, very weak.

00:08:36: Of these 10,000 that we train every year,

00:08:38: perhaps 4,000 will sprout next year,

00:08:41: but that's why we do it this way.

00:08:42: Formerly we used to put 2 in like this,

00:08:44: they didn't sprout either.

00:08:45: This basically gives you the genetics.

00:08:49: And the average age.

00:08:51: That means that even today

00:08:53: nothing grafted is used, but you continue to do it

00:08:55: just like in former times.

00:08:56: With these original ungrafted, root-authentic vines,

00:08:59: as long as you don't replant,

00:09:00: i.e. tear out the whole vineyard,

00:09:03: then you can patch up root-authentic,

00:09:05: that's what we call it.

00:09:05: So you are still allowed to patch it up.

00:09:09: So that's how the vineyard stays...

00:09:11: ...we have counted it,

00:09:14: between 0.5 and 0.8% is renewed,

00:09:15: that means at 0.5% you need 200 years,

00:09:18: until the vineyard is renewed.

00:09:19: So you stay

00:09:21: on average

00:09:22: at 100, 120 years.

00:09:24: At the one vineyard

00:09:25: we counted once, over a few years

00:09:27: it was 0.3% and there it is

00:09:29: only new after 300 years,

00:09:31: so you get

00:09:34: the average age.

00:09:37: This is of course important,

00:09:38: that you keep an eye on these vine stocks.

00:09:41: Because once you have 15

00:09:43: years done nothing,

00:09:44: then there are lots of gaps in between.

00:09:46: You can see that in Burgundy. We were there

00:09:50: now 2 days ago,

00:09:52: because the vineyard

00:09:53: I could possibly lease it.

00:09:54: Yes, they're producing from one hectare

00:09:56: only 20 hectoliters,

00:09:58: and now I know why. When we were there in the vineyard...

00:10:01: Huge gaps or what?

00:10:03: Huge gaps, huge gaps.

00:10:05: They don't replant there,

00:10:06: they just let one after the other

00:10:08: break down, then you end up with

00:10:10: half of the vines.

00:10:12: But does that make sense, because they have less and less yield?

00:10:14: Of course that makes no sense at all.

00:10:16: Above all, it makes no sense,

00:10:17: when I'm on the road at top-vineyard-sites

00:10:20: and have the interest that I

00:10:21: have as old a stock of vines as possible.

00:10:23: If I don't take care to preserve it,

00:10:25: like Ernie just described,

00:10:26: that you keep the average age approximately

00:10:28: or perhaps slightly younger, so that this is not a

00:10:31: big step.

00:10:32: The moment I do nothing for 15 years

00:10:34: and have gaps everywhere, then I have 2 options:

00:10:36: Either I replant completely.

00:10:39: Or I suddenly have,

00:10:42: I don't know,

00:10:44: 20 to 30% young vines that I put in,

00:10:47: I have two very different things,

00:10:49: that is difficult.

00:10:50: Of course, it also depends on the winemakers.

00:10:51: If you go to the famous winegrowers, of course,

00:10:53: when it comes to their vineyards,

00:10:55: they replant nicely, of course,

00:10:57: because of course he gets huge prizes.

00:10:58: Some small winegrower, he doesn't feel like it

00:11:00: to invest there, they're just doing their job and all that.

00:11:03: That always depends, of course,

00:11:05: which vintner.

00:11:07: I say, famous winegrowers are sure replanting.

00:11:11: Now we're already in Burgundy, so to speak...

00:11:13: ... not by a long shot, no, no, no...

00:11:16: Not with the wine, but

00:11:17: I've heard that a lot too.

00:11:20: So you love Burgundy wines, you love Burgundy,

00:11:23: you're there more often too,

00:11:26: but do you also make wine there?

00:11:27: Well, we do make wine,

00:11:29: but only as a négociant,

00:11:31: not as Domaine.

00:11:33: We do not have our own vineyards,

00:11:36: we buy grapes or must and so on,

00:11:38: and then as a négociant or wine merchant,

00:11:42: they say here with us,

00:11:44: we make wine.

00:11:46: This is a négociant business,

00:11:47: that is,

00:11:49: we buy everything,

00:11:51: but don't have any of our own, so

00:11:53: Domaine means from our own vineyards,

00:11:54: but when you see the prices down there, of course,

00:11:57: then it's all a bit...

00:11:59: ...you have to cut off.

00:12:01: There's another thing under there...

00:12:02: ...you have to cut it off.

00:12:06: It's like

00:12:08: a Christmas present. Nicely wrapped.

00:12:12: Especially for you, Philipp.

00:12:15: We're doing this so that you can

00:12:16: cut it off cleanly.

00:12:18: If you do it.

00:12:20: Now let's see how Philipp does it.

00:12:21: He has no patience.

00:12:23: Of course, that has something to do with it,

00:12:24: that the wines are more durable.

00:12:27: Because the wax has in principle only a beauty function.

00:12:29: Well, it's going off well, I must say, well done.

00:12:31: I always tend to drill into it, as I said, and

00:12:33: then I put a DropStop on it,

00:12:35: then I don't care what's underneath.

00:12:37: But of course that's the case,

00:12:39: that it's a bit cleaner. They did a nice job, I admit.

00:12:40: Looks great, yeah, looks great.

00:12:43: That's clean,

00:12:44: the wax, it crumbles like this,

00:12:47: so you can cut it off cleanly.

00:12:50: It is also clean at the top.

00:12:53: And that's really the case,

00:12:54: that the wax is not just beautiful,

00:12:56: but that it keeps the wine fresh for longer?

00:12:58: No, no, no, no.

00:12:59: That has no meaning at all.

00:13:00: Formerly it was a protection from the cork moth.

00:13:02: The capsule in between,

00:13:05: which helps that the oxidation

00:13:07: is reduced somewhat.

00:13:09: And the wax is the show then?

00:13:11: That is the show.

00:13:13: That looks nice.

00:13:14: When you've drunk so much Burgundy in your life,

00:13:16: you're used to the wax,

00:13:17: then you have to say that at some point.

00:13:19: But if you store it for a really long time,

00:13:22: the hard wax,

00:13:23: it flakes off and stuff,

00:13:25: there's no longer any effect.

00:13:26: They used to do that,

00:13:29: since the capsules were invented.

00:13:32: The wine was protected from the cork moth.

00:13:34: Oh, so they couldn't get on it directly.

00:13:36: Now you have the capsules.

00:13:37: Yes, the cork moth used to

00:13:41: cause a lot of damage.

00:13:42: My God, that looks like the cork moth.

00:13:44: Yeah, the cork moth, I don't know.

00:13:47: The cork moth was already like this...

00:13:48: Yes, so if such a wine cellar

00:13:51: somehow ...

00:13:52: ... had a cork moth, but then there's an alarm.

00:13:55: That's not good.

00:13:57: She's drilling through the cork,

00:13:59: then you have offshoots, the wine runs out.

00:14:00: Let's take the second glass.

00:14:02: Thank you.

00:14:04: So if someone has a lot of offshoots

00:14:06: in his cellar, then he should...

00:14:07: You can tell by the cork.

00:14:09: It's like flour on top.

00:14:11: You can also see the corridor,

00:14:15: that the cork moth has drilled.

00:14:17: It goes all the way down.

00:14:19: What we do now,

00:14:21: that's why we only have wines with us now,

00:14:23: those, we have specialized in them,

00:14:26: that have a long yeast ageing period.

00:14:27: But without batonnage, i.e. without stirring.

00:14:30: Our GGs, Grand Crus,

00:14:31: are all at least 12 months

00:14:33: on the full lees in the barrel.

00:14:35: But without stirring.

00:14:36: We usually fill at the end of October,

00:14:38: beginning of November, the GGs, Grand Crus.

00:14:41: So they'll be in the barrel for a whole year.

00:14:43: So we have 1,000-, 2,000-, 3,000-liter barrels.

00:14:46: After fermentation,

00:14:47: when they are dry,

00:14:48: they are sulphurized, filled up.

00:14:51: Then they remain in the barrel for 12 months.

00:14:53: And of course there filled up every month.

00:14:55: And the "Reserve",

00:14:57: we put the “Lieu-dit” on it.

00:14:59: So “Lieu-dit” is the smaller unit

00:15:01: within a vineyard site.

00:15:03: The French call this “Lieu-dit”

00:15:05: We call it a “Gewann”. You've heard that before.

00:15:06: I've heard that before.

00:15:08: I've tried with the French now

00:15:10: to pretend

00:15:12: I would have got it.

00:15:13: But “Gewann”, okay.

00:15:15: Because we take the oldest vines there

00:15:18: from the "Gewann".

00:15:20: So there we also do these Gewann names,

00:15:23: or "Lieu-dit", on it.

00:15:24: These are then only our oldest ungrafted, root-authentic vines.

00:15:27: This is what we call the "Reserve".

00:15:29: And it stays for 2 years.

00:15:30: Because that was standard winemaking 120 years ago.

00:15:33: It stays on the lees for 2 years.

00:15:36: But as I said, not like in France with the batonnage.

00:15:38: With the stirring?

00:15:39: Without stirring, it just stays there.

00:15:41: Sulphurized, replenished.

00:15:43: Then always filled up for 2 years.

00:15:45: And then becomes bottled after 2 years

00:15:47: even without filtration

00:15:49: and without fining.

00:15:51: But it is very clear.

00:15:52: You can see, of course, that this gets a completely different...

00:15:54: And the wine, after 2 years in the barrel,

00:15:57: stays in the bottle for another 4 years.

00:15:59: It's released now for the first time.

00:16:01: Ah yes. 2018.

00:16:01: That was now a lot

00:16:05: of information

00:16:07: about winemaking.

00:16:08: If you just open the bottle now:

00:16:10: It's a giant, the wine!

00:16:11: We are in the warm year

00:16:15: 2018.

00:16:16: A year with early maturity.

00:16:19: And of course there the cool vineyard sites

00:16:21: have a clear advantage,

00:16:23: because while keeping the freshness

00:16:24: they also retain a good acid structure.

00:16:27: Again the topic of old vines.

00:16:29: And the “Ürziger Würzgarten” is...

00:16:30: That is volcanic.

00:16:31: Look, you know how it is with me, goose bumps.

00:16:33: Here we go again with Philipp.

00:16:37: “Ürziger Würzgarten” is an absolutely special vineyard site.

00:16:39: And is also very close

00:16:41: in connection with Dr. Loosen.

00:16:43: “Ürziger Würzgarten” is definitely

00:16:44: one of the vineyard sites...

00:16:46: ...The winery is basically a merger of two wineries.

00:16:49: My mother, very unusual,

00:16:50: my mother like my father,

00:16:52: were both single children.

00:16:54: And both inherited a vineyard.

00:16:56: My mother comes from this

00:16:59: Prüm's hereditary line.

00:17:00: My great-grandfather

00:17:02: has married the eldest sister

00:17:03: of Johann Josef Prüm.

00:17:06: And inherited one sixth of the winery.

00:17:08: His first wife has died.

00:17:09: Then he married the younger sister of Johann Josef Prüm.

00:17:10: And inherited another sixth. He did well!

00:17:14: And then inherited another sixth

00:17:18: from an unmarried “Öhme”,

00:17:19: as the uncles are called,

00:17:21: who are not married.

00:17:23: An unmarried brother of his two wives.

00:17:25: He also got his sixth.

00:17:28: There were six children, four boys

00:17:29: and three girls.

00:17:30: So from three of them he already grazed everything.

00:17:33: So from the biggest winery back then

00:17:35: in the area he had already had half.

00:17:38: So he had the second largest winery.

00:17:40: But after him came the next Prüm.

00:17:41: And that's where the vineyard sites come from.

00:17:43: And that's where the vineyard sites

00:17:45: “Wehlener Sonnenuhr” and so on come from.

00:17:46: They all come from this Prüm family.

00:17:48: And of course also from my great-grandfather

00:17:49: who also owned property in Wehlen.

00:17:52: And the “Ürziger” vineyard sites, i.e. around the corner,

00:17:55: once around the Moselle...

00:17:57: “Ürziger Würzgarten”, Molitor also has vineyards there, right?

00:18:00: But not much.

00:18:01: I've been there before,

00:18:02: I remember the vineyard, I wanted to say.

00:18:03: And the “Ürziger”, that comes from my father's side.

00:18:06: So he has, also a single child,

00:18:08: inherited the winery from his father.

00:18:11: And so two wineries came together

00:18:13: when they got married in 1953.

00:18:15: They hadn't had an inheritance division either.

00:18:17: This is how the two estates came together.

00:18:20: That's why we have these two traditions.

00:18:22: At my mother's winery,

00:18:24: they only made fruitsweet wines,

00:18:27: which the Prüms still do today.

00:18:29: So only the fruity Kabinett,

00:18:30: fruity Spätlese, fruity Auslese, i.e. only with residual sugar.

00:18:33: While my father's winery,

00:18:35: my great-grandfather, my paternal grandfather,

00:18:37: only made dry wines. Very unusual for the time.

00:18:38: That's where this comes from with you. My father gave it up in 1953,

00:18:43: but until 53, only dry wines were produced.

00:18:47: That's really early, isn't it? Unusually early.

00:18:48: Is the basic ripeness in the “Würzgarten”

00:18:53: a different one...

00:18:54: Yes, you can see it, it also has 12.5%.

00:18:55: That means it's already from...

00:18:57: ...The soil is simply different.

00:18:59: This is the only soil,

00:19:00: in the entire Middle Moselle that is not characterized by slate,

00:19:03: but of weathered volcanic conglomerate.

00:19:06: So really red, fatty,

00:19:07: what's there.

00:19:09: We also have a winery,

00:19:12: two actually, in Oregon.

00:19:14: And we only make Pinot Noir there.

00:19:16: And the “Dundee Hills”,

00:19:18: where we also have vineyards,

00:19:20: have exactly the same stuff as in the “Würzgarten”.

00:19:22: And they call it

00:19:23: “Volcanic Clay”.

00:19:25: And I only recently picked up a few stones.

00:19:28: I put these right next to the “Würzgarten”,

00:19:29: You can't tell the difference between the two things.

00:19:30: Oh come on, crazy.

00:19:31: You're not supposed to get everything mixed up!

00:19:35: You destroyed the soil DNA.

00:19:37: Well, because that's...

00:19:38: ...unusual.

00:19:40: And you can actually see that, when you taste the “Wehlener” here.

00:19:43: “Wehlener” is also from blue slate.

00:19:45: I would have to try again.

00:19:46: No problem, there's still some left in the bottle.

00:19:49: And if you then...

00:19:51: It's always very elegant,

00:19:53: fine, fruity.

00:19:55: Delicate, very delicate. Just...

00:19:56: Slate is always so fruit accentuated.

00:19:59: Stone fruit, a bit of apple,

00:20:01: white peach and so on.

00:20:02: Always very delicate, very elegant.

00:20:04: While the “Würzgarten”, as the name suggests,

00:20:06: is more herbal, spicy...

00:20:09: It's really cool.

00:20:10: ...almost earthy.

00:20:11: Incredibly different in style.

00:20:13: They are both wonderful.

00:20:16: One is just 2022, the other is 2018.

00:20:18: It's nice how they stand next to each other.

00:20:21: 2022 with this

00:20:22: silkiness, which the vintage also has to some extent.

00:20:25: And the 2018 already has power.

00:20:26: You can already feel that this is rich in content.

00:20:29: The alcohol content is the same.

00:20:31: So it seems thicker.

00:20:33: But this long yeast ageing.

00:20:35: And then again

00:20:36: the four years in the bottle.

00:20:38: And then a long, as I said, two years on the lees.

00:20:40: And that makes the wines a little more charming.

00:20:42: A little rounder.

00:20:43: That's almost extract sweetness, such a sweetish finish.

00:20:46: Do you have any variance in the barrel sizes?

00:20:50: So we have 1,000,

00:20:51: 2,000, 3,000 liters.

00:20:53: That's more about it,

00:20:55: depending on what we harvest.

00:20:56: If we only have 1,000 liters...

00:20:59: We're still doing the same thing as an “Hommage”, "Tribute".

00:21:00: It stays in the barrel for three years.

00:21:03: In a thousand liter barrel called "Fuder".

00:21:05: And then another ten years in the bottle.

00:21:07: The first “Hommage” comes out now

00:21:09: in the fall.

00:21:10: 2011s.

00:21:11: And then my great-grandfather

00:21:12: his best "Fuders"...

00:21:13: You have to read up on it a little bit with you.

00:21:16: If you want to buy wine, it's not that easy.

00:21:19: Not just like that.

00:21:21: And the best vineyards,

00:21:23: the best barrels, he said,

00:21:26: the best "Fuder", he left the wine

00:21:27: in the barrel for eight years.

00:21:29: Always on the lees.

00:21:30: Never stabbed.

00:21:32: Your great-grandfather did that.

00:21:34: And my grandfather.

00:21:37: And did he write all that down?

00:21:38: Yes, of course.

00:21:40: I once had a 47er...

00:21:42: One of this “Würzgarten” here. I once drank as a 47. Dry.

00:21:45: That was great.

00:21:46: Even if he was 50, 60 years old.

00:21:48: And that's what we do.

00:21:49: Up to eight years. Our oldest “Erdener Treppchen”,

00:21:52: our oldest vineyard site in Erden,

00:21:55: Over 120, 130 years old,

00:21:57: which we then age on the yeast for eight years.

00:21:59: Crazy.

00:21:59: And then it's bottled.

00:22:01: Even without fining.

00:22:02: And without filtration too.

00:22:04: Great!

00:22:07: And you have to, very important,

00:22:09: also have a little bit an eye

00:22:12: at the appellation.

00:22:13: At the Moselle are growing

00:22:14: very finesse-rich, elegant wines.

00:22:17: The pH values at harvest are relatively low.

00:22:21: A good acid structure is generally present.

00:22:23: The last decade has given us

00:22:25: everywhere in Germany the chance

00:22:27: to harvest ripe grapes every year.

00:22:29: That means you can also produce great dry wine in the Moselle

00:22:31: in every vintage these days.

00:22:34: And then there's the question,

00:22:36: how do I handle that,

00:22:37: to make this wine truly great

00:22:39: to help it achieve greatness.

00:22:40: And that is already the case,

00:22:42: that on the one hand it is an innovation

00:22:45: to go this way that Ernie is describing.

00:22:47: On the other hand, of course, there is also a lot of tradition,

00:22:49: because, of course, things are not completely new inventions.

00:22:51: I actually only have

00:22:55: picked things up again,

00:22:56: that our great-grandfather made between 1880

00:22:58: and 1920.

00:23:00: And that was Standard Winemaking everywhere.

00:23:03: So now not only on the Moselle.

00:23:04: Actually two years in the barrel,

00:23:06: because there was no technology.

00:23:08: They used to have a lot of time,

00:23:11: but no technology.

00:23:11: No time today, but lots of technology.

00:23:13: And in the time before filters

00:23:17: you simply had to wait.

00:23:19: You had to wait until the wine was clear,

00:23:20: until the wine has fined itself.

00:23:22: And every wine makes itself beautiful.

00:23:25: You don't have time today,

00:23:26: today you're putting bentonite on it,

00:23:28: filter it off the next day,

00:23:30: then you have the protein out.

00:23:31: If you want to get the protein out in a natural way,

00:23:33: you have to wait 10 to 15 months.

00:23:35: Then it will drop out by itself.

00:23:37: So to be on the safe side,

00:23:39: you waited 24 months.

00:23:41: That's why all the old wineries always had two cellars.

00:23:43: Because you always had two vintages in the cellar.

00:23:47: And it was like that on the Moselle,

00:23:50: the auction was in mid-September.

00:23:53: And earlier, my mother,

00:23:55: when we started then,

00:23:57: now through Global Warming

00:23:58: to harvest as early as the beginning of October,

00:24:00: who says, my goodness,

00:24:01: are you already harvesting, are you crazy?

00:24:03: I say, mother, what´s up?

00:24:05: Then she says, we never started before November 1st.

00:24:09: You have to imagine, never before November 1st.

00:24:11: Even until Christmas?

00:24:12: Well, yes,

00:24:13: into December.

00:24:15: And today, of course, it's different,

00:24:18: everything has shifted forward a bit.

00:24:21: But how is it now?

00:24:22: You said,

00:24:23: You always have to watch out a bit where the wine comes from.

00:24:25: And then the Moselle with the low pH values.

00:24:28: Now, if you take the wine

00:24:29: for three years

00:24:31: on the yeast, would that even work?

00:24:33: Exactly the same.

00:24:33: That was standard procedure everywhere.

00:24:35: So it works, it's a question of style,

00:24:38: where you want to go.

00:24:39: I have dealt with this and also tried it out.

00:24:43: That's how it is with us,

00:24:45: that from our basic structure of wines

00:24:48: we already have to look,

00:24:50: that we keep the elegance,

00:24:51: the freshness, the delicacy, the finesse

00:24:53: in the wine.

00:24:55: If we age too long on the lees,

00:24:58: if we also store too long in the barrel,

00:25:00: the wines run the risk,

00:25:03: that they diverge a little.

00:25:05: You can see it here,

00:25:06: of course it's a little bit,

00:25:08: so it's not higher in alcohol,

00:25:09: but he is rounder.

00:25:11: It's a wonderful

00:25:14: Variant,

00:25:16: to give this wine

00:25:17: the icing on the cake of complexity

00:25:19: out of the finesse.

00:25:21: And imagine,

00:25:22: your basic structure is from the outset

00:25:24: a little more muscular

00:25:27: and then maybe you have to think differently sometimes.

00:25:29: So in that respect, I'm all in,

00:25:32: that this question

00:25:33: of time and vinification

00:25:35: and patience is very important.

00:25:37: And today,

00:25:39: Years like 2013

00:25:41: or 2010 I would

00:25:43: definitely want to store longer in the barrel.

00:25:44: Because of the acidity?

00:25:47: Those were the ones with the crisp acidity.

00:25:49: I would have said, okay,

00:25:50: a little more time would be good for the wines

00:25:53: and in that respect it makes sense.

00:25:54: In the years between 2012

00:25:57: and 2018

00:26:01: again and again I leave lying

00:26:03: single lots.

00:26:04: Partly even original from the “Morstein”,

00:26:07: once a piece barrel, a "Stück-Fass", simply

00:26:09: to see what happens there.

00:26:10: And in the end, the result was more often like this,

00:26:12: that the earlier variant

00:26:15: was more to my liking and

00:26:16: so for me personally today,

00:26:19: because we also know that the wines

00:26:21: have great ageing potential

00:26:22: and develop accordingly.

00:26:25: And that's why I say...

00:26:27: We had it yesterday: “Kirchspiel” 2015. Super fresh...

00:26:29: It just has to be found

00:26:30: a solution that

00:26:33: matches the origin.

00:26:35: Of course, the question of what the wines are doing would be exciting,

00:26:37: when they are 15, 20 years old.

00:26:40: I can't answer that.

00:26:41: It's too short notice for that.

00:26:43: I can already imagine,

00:26:44: that these wines that have been on the lees for so long,

00:26:47: also benefit from it again.

00:26:49: I can already imagine that.

00:26:50: So the whole thing is just

00:26:54: come about because

00:26:55: simply an old customer

00:26:57: or an age-old customer

00:26:58: visited me 20 years ago,

00:27:00: who still knew my grandfather and great-grandfather on my father's side.

00:27:03: And he told me,

00:27:05: our family only ever drank dry wines

00:27:07: and back then, everything was sweet,

00:27:08: but your family from Ürzig, they have

00:27:10: always made dry wines.

00:27:12: And that's why we always bought there.

00:27:14: Aha, okay,

00:27:15: he didn't know that my father

00:27:18: stopped this in 1953.

00:27:19: He said, yes, but I have brought you a 1947 now.

00:27:23: So this “Würzgarten” that we're drinking right now.

00:27:25: Two years on the lees,

00:27:26: what we now call "Reserve".

00:27:28: That's when I said, all good.

00:27:30: We used to think the great residual sweet wines,

00:27:33: they can last forever.

00:27:34: I've already drunk them all

00:27:35: from a great-uncle, 20s, 21s.

00:27:38: “Wehlener Sonnenuhr” Finest Auslese and such, the 49er,

00:27:40: all fantastic.

00:27:42: But dry, I had no experience with that.

00:27:45: And then weeks later

00:27:46: I opened the bottle.

00:27:47: So, you didn't really expect anything big.

00:27:49: But the wine was so delicious, so fine.

00:27:52: Of course it was matured,

00:27:54: that was of course not a young wine.

00:27:56: But it was perfectly matured for me,

00:27:59: he was 50 years old,

00:28:00: when we drank it 20 years ago,

00:28:02: So 50, 60 years old.

00:28:03: And then I said, shit, what was that old bastard doing?

00:28:06: He made dry wines.

00:28:07: Which can then last 50, 60 years.

00:28:10: And that's when I first became interested.

00:28:12: We changed everything that year,

00:28:15: went with all dry wines

00:28:17: away from stainless steel back into wooden barrels.

00:28:19: And have ever since,

00:28:22: in the 20 years,

00:28:23: been investing certainly over 2 million Euros only in wooden barrels.

00:28:26: We get six 3,000 liter barrels every year

00:28:29: Okay.

00:28:29: Pretty expensive,

00:28:31: these things by now, unfortunately.

00:28:32: That's always a good sign for us,

00:28:37: when you drink up.

00:28:38: Then you know it was good. Away with the puddle.

00:28:41: But with the low pH value and

00:28:44: also the low alcohol values.

00:28:46: Of course, we only put out the healthy grapes.

00:28:48: And when you're on the Moselle,

00:28:49: also in the Grand Cru vineyard sites,

00:28:51: only healthy grapes,

00:28:52: we do not allow botrytis for the dry wines.

00:28:55: Then you can be happy,

00:28:57: if you have 12%, 12.5% alcohol.

00:28:58: Really, that's all you get. Absolutely!

00:29:00: Even in a big year, in a hot year.

00:29:03: We can't do it.

00:29:04: So with healthy grapes we can't make 13.5% on the Mosel.

00:29:07: That's all you want.

00:29:10: Yes, these 12 to 12.5 are also ideal.

00:29:11: That will get us there.

00:29:12: Then you get a little bit of charm.

00:29:15: Then that helps.

00:29:16: So now two years on the lees.

00:29:18: It's already getting a nice sweetness.

00:29:20: Such an extract sweetness.

00:29:23: Which always goes well with "Möselchen", "Little Moselle".

00:29:25: Listen, there on the bottle,

00:29:27: very briefly, before we get to your wine, Philipp,

00:29:28: there is also a number on it.

00:29:30: Yes, that's bottle 1,997.

00:29:32: Yes, and that also says,

00:29:33: how many bottles have been produced, right?

00:29:36: Do you need glasses?

00:29:37: Yes, I was just thinking about it,

00:29:38: whether I should make a joke and

00:29:40: should triple that,

00:29:41: or should tenfold, but

00:29:43: there are only 2,456 bottles.

00:29:45: That's a very rare number.

00:29:47: Yes, that's only from two "Fuder" barrels.

00:29:50: You don't have more due to the selection...

00:29:52: ...The wine is a giant!

00:29:54: And if it comes out now, it's probably already out of stock, but if you can find it somewhere in the shops

00:29:58: it's something you have to put in the cellar. So I will definitely...

00:30:02: ...Yes, 12, ten years. The '12 "Reserves" are so fantastic now. The 12er “Würzgarten”, I took that with me to,

00:30:06: You know him too, to David Fink. He used to do this great wine festival in Carmel.

00:30:11: He has now opened a hotel in Beaune.

00:30:19: “1896” is the name.

00:30:22: This is from a big, old, very old one,

00:30:26: Négociant-family from Beaune.

00:30:29: This was their office building in the middle of Beaune.

00:30:32: He convinced them that it was far too good for an office.

00:30:36: And turned it into a hotel.

00:30:38: Aubert de Villaine, the owner of Romanée-Conti,

00:30:41: is also an investor, also in Carmel and so on.

00:30:44: And he asked me at the opening, because he was always a big Mosel fan,

00:30:48: I don't want another Burgundy wine here now. I want to have a “Möselchen”.

00:30:59: OK, I said I'd bring you the 12er “Würzgarten”, Reserve. “But only from the magnum,” he said.

00:31:06: That's clear! I would have said that too. Yes, there were only winegrowers and hoteliers and

00:31:12: restaurants and so on. And we served it there and Monsieur de Villain came later with his wife.

00:31:23: And then Madame de Villain said: “Mr. Loosen, that was the best wine of the whole evening!”

00:31:31: Do you see? After all. Nice, isn't it!

00:31:34: And there were some really big names from Burgundy.

00:31:38: It was of course super charming.

00:31:40: But I've heard that before,

00:31:42: that this is also the, I'll say it like I've heard it:

00:31:45: That's the “Ernie-Loosen-trick”...

00:31:49: Trick? Yes, the Mosel people have always been very tricky.

00:31:54: ...which other winegrowers have also copied. That's what Roman Niewodniczanski told me.

00:31:58: He once told me that he always started with big things from Burgundy... Oh look, you're being asked.

00:32:06: These are the really bad moments in a program like this,

00:32:10: where the colleague in the technical department is breathing...

00:32:14: But what if it is Roman?

00:32:16: Oh my god! That was “live”

00:32:19: We're talking about you!

00:32:24: So Roman told me that he always uses the "Ernie-Loosen-trick",

00:32:28: which is to open big burgundies and things like that first.

00:32:31: They're great, but also a bit complicated.

00:32:34: And then at the end such a "Möselchen", “Little Moselle”.

00:32:37: And everyone would say, but that's actually... Yes... Oh...

00:32:42: The great Rieslings of Germany

00:32:45: don't have to hide.

00:32:46: I think it's the other way around. That Ernie always played the Moselle theme first,

00:32:51: before they all get poured the burgundies.

00:32:54: Why don't you tell me how you do it?

00:32:58: No, you have to... Honestly.

00:33:00: This one here is also from a very famous winemaker,

00:33:03: from Dominique Lafon,

00:33:06: who is actually more famous for his white wines.

00:33:08: But I think his red wines are sensational,

00:33:11: but they are still favorable in price,

00:33:12: because he's just famous for his white wines.

00:33:14: But he makes great red wines that age incredibly well.

00:33:18: 30 years old, I still have “Santenots” from 1988,

00:33:20: The stuff is still young and fresh.

00:33:22: And that's pretty simple.

00:33:27: If you show your wines next to the great wines of the world,

00:33:33: then at least you have the claim,

00:33:34: to be perceived in the same category.

00:33:37: Instead of you saying now,

00:33:39: my wine is great and then you put some Euro 1.99 Aldi wine next to it.

00:33:43: So you have to compare yourself to something.

00:33:48: Besides, of course, you also like to drink these things.

00:33:51: I also drink...

00:33:52: I'm a big Bordeaux fan, it's not like that, or a Rhone fan,

00:33:55: those are three passions.

00:33:57: And if you have guests in the evening, of course,

00:33:59: you don't want to spend the whole evening at dinner

00:34:01: drinking your own wine.

00:34:03: I once had an event like this,

00:34:06: that was at Chateau Guiraud, it's one of those Tarn wineries.

00:34:09: That belonged to some arms dealer from Canada back then.

00:34:12: You had dinner with them.

00:34:15: Belongs to Olivier Bernard and Graf Neipperg today.

00:34:23: They bought it.

00:34:24: But back then it was still the arms dealer,

00:34:25: we had dinner there.

00:34:27: You had to the whole... There was only...

00:34:29: ...the whole fucking dinner

00:34:30: you had to drink Sauternes, from the first to the last course.

00:34:34: Yeah, tell me, what kind of shit is that? That's the last thing, is that what you want to say?

00:34:36: That's when I said to myself back then.

00:34:38: That's not going to happen for me.

00:34:40: That's a sweet- and alcohol-shock.

00:34:42: And he, the idiot, all the time then:

00:34:45: Yes, those would be great wines, they would go with everything.

00:34:48: Oh my God.

00:34:50: Well, that doesn't happen with me.

00:34:52: You want to, let's say, you're convinced of your wines,

00:34:54: not an issue at all, we all are.

00:34:56: But you're not like that, so something like

00:35:02: Blinkered and blind.

00:35:04: That people think I have to drink my Riesling with everything now.

00:35:07: But first comes the work,

00:35:09: that means you taste the young vintage.

00:35:10: That's work.

00:35:12: When it comes to enjoyment,

00:35:13: then of course you play the game

00:35:15: with fine wine.

00:35:17: Then you'll go to the course where it fits,

00:35:18: for a Riesling, of course.

00:35:20: And maybe put another one next to it.

00:35:23: But I have to say, I'm still fair to the Burgundians.

00:35:25: I always serve Burgundy white first.

00:35:31: And then comes the Riesling.

00:35:32: Because if you pour the Riesling first, the burgundian is broken.

00:35:36: Okay.

00:35:37: Quite simple, to be honest.

00:35:39: So, against this type of Riesling,

00:35:43: if, for example, you now have a Clos de la Barre from Lafon

00:35:48: next to it, it would simply have a difficult time.

00:35:50: It simply has to do with the acid.

00:35:52: The acidity is in our Rieslings,

00:35:53: ...which is carrying too, of course... It's so dominant in our Rieslings.

00:35:57: And that's where our strength comes out in the wines, of course.

00:36:01: And then comes a, let's say, Meursault,

00:36:03: which then only has 5.0 g/l acidity.

00:36:06: It almost falls...

00:36:07: But they usually crash after the Riesling.

00:36:11: I totally understand that.

00:36:13: I feel the same way, different approach.

00:36:15: We are on lime soil here.

00:36:17: “Morstein” is lime.

00:36:18: And if you then combine Chardonnay and Riesling

00:36:22: partly next to each other,

00:36:24: you will find again and again

00:36:26: these parallels in the mouthfeel.

00:36:29: But right next to each other,

00:36:31: to drink that afterwards,

00:36:32: is always difficult.

00:36:33: The acid issue is one thing.

00:36:37: Clearly, on the other hand, of course,

00:36:38: that, as a rule, Burgundy

00:36:40: also has a little more volume

00:36:42: and of course the wood also plays a part.

00:36:44: I think it's quite cool with food,

00:36:46: if you do it side by side.

00:36:47: But you need a course. If you do it solo, I'm right there with you.

00:36:50: We had the best example last night.

00:36:53: We had, I had from

00:36:54: our production

00:36:57: a Meursault with us.

00:36:59: Great wine, also reductive,

00:37:01: It's not like that.

00:37:02: So here from Perron de Mypont, that's the name of the label.

00:37:06: And we had

00:37:08: his 2015

00:37:10: “Kirchspiel”.

00:37:11: We drank the Burgundy first

00:37:15: and then the “Kirchspiel”.

00:37:16: And then I have the

00:37:18: Burgundy again.

00:37:20: He's already fallen off against it.

00:37:22: Because simply here at the “Kirchspiel”,

00:37:23: there was a different acid,

00:37:25: there was a different structure.

00:37:27: And it masks much more strongly.

00:37:30: Also more length. Doesn't Riesling also have more length?

00:37:34: And that's where

00:37:35: then suddenly the,

00:37:36: although it was very nice,

00:37:37: drank for himself,

00:37:38: the Meursault is a bit weak in comparison.

00:37:41: And the wood doesn't help against the fruit anyway.

00:37:44: Sorry, that doesn't make it any better.

00:37:46: That's nice, drunk on its own,

00:37:48: but it crashes and just the wood

00:37:51: makes it a bit,

00:37:52: as the English say: “austere”.

00:37:55: And then against this fruit,

00:37:58: which the wine had, which had

00:37:59: had the same fruit.

00:38:00: So he was still incredibly youthful.

00:38:02: He had a hard time.

00:38:04: By the way, we are also at 2015.

00:38:05: Now we have to go to, exactly...

00:38:07: ... “Morstein” we have now.

00:38:08: And that was “Kirchspiel” 2015 yesterday.

00:38:10: We had this one at the “Zeltinger Hof”

00:38:13: yesterday.

00:38:15: And that was already...

00:38:16: ...So he had a clue.

00:38:18: I would say the same now.

00:38:22: That's a great wine.

00:38:23: Great, also how fresh it still is.

00:38:26: Fun, isn't it?

00:38:29: Say something about Philipp's wine here now...

00:38:31: As I said, last night,

00:38:32: that's funny,

00:38:33: that I also drank one of these last night.

00:38:35: 15s, you're full on 15s now.

00:38:37: Yes, 15 was also a great vintage.

00:38:40: There was also a good acid structure. It wasn't such a hot vintage.

00:38:43: It was a bit of a juxtaposition at the beginning,

00:38:46: because the acidity was already very present.

00:38:48: The time, ten years...

00:38:50: ...yes, almost ten years.

00:38:52: Let's be generous.

00:38:54: We on the Moselle can't calculate so precisely.

00:38:56: We are always generous.

00:38:59: Yes, you can be.

00:39:01: But ten years,

00:39:02: that's crazy, it's fresh as dew, the wine.

00:39:05: That's really cool.

00:39:06: I have read, now I got from your winery

00:39:08: a new brochure saying:

00:39:11: 350 vintages now.

00:39:12: Yes, given... 350 vintages.

00:39:14: I wanted to celebrate that now.

00:39:18: 350 vintages.

00:39:18: 11th generation, or something, I don't know.

00:39:22: 350 vintages.

00:39:23: Whatever that means.

00:39:24: So, no idea.

00:39:26: We're still here, and that's a good thing.

00:39:29: “Kirchstück”, is that a warmer vineyard site?

00:39:32: “Kirchspiel” is a bit warmer, yes.

00:39:32: Yes, “Kirchspiel”, that's what it's called.

00:39:33: “Kirchspiel” is a bit warmer.

00:39:36: We're basically between...

00:39:39: And that's lime soil, right?

00:39:40: That's both lime.

00:39:42: “Kirchspiel”, an eastern slope, open to the Rhine.

00:39:46: At an altitude of about 130 to 150 meters.

00:39:50: Significantly earlier in maturity than the “Morstein”.

00:39:52: The “Morstein” lies between 180 and 240 meters above sea level.

00:39:55: And also open to the wind.

00:39:57: The eastern slope is totally protected from the westerly winds,

00:40:00: which we always have.

00:40:01: In the “Morstein” the wind always blows a little over it.

00:40:04: And so we have about...

00:40:06: one week difference in vegetation.

00:40:09: And that of course helps on the one hand

00:40:13: the “Morstein”, to play this cooler characteristic,

00:40:15: also a little influenced by acidity.

00:40:19: And “Kirchspiel” convinces naturally also by a certain spiciness,

00:40:23: that's in there from the maturity.

00:40:25: And interestingly, the “Kirchspiel” wines are never so yellow-fruity.

00:40:29: They always have more of a herbal texture.

00:40:33: You often have mint, white pepper, flavors like that.

00:40:36: And “Morstein” is more classic yellow fruit.

00:40:37: Although it is the same soil?

00:40:41: Yes, but the climate makes the difference in the end.

00:40:43: Yes, good. As always.

00:40:44: At the “Morstein” you have the sun in the morning,

00:40:47: but in the evening it is also gone relatively quickly.

00:40:48: That's why you can't speak about terroir

00:40:51: by just talking about the “dirt”.

00:40:54: So, because you

00:40:56: see right here,

00:40:57: although you have the same soil, you still have two different wines.

00:41:01: That's the complexity of the terroir, it consists of the “dirt”,

00:41:04: all the micro-climate factors such as elevation, exposure and

00:41:09: Inclination and what they are all called.

00:41:12: This complexity makes the terroir.

00:41:15: We have to have fun again now.

00:41:17: Add the “Ürziger Würzgarten”.

00:41:18: “Würzgarten” and ‘Morstein’ next to each other.

00:41:20: So what you said, there's this spiciness.

00:41:23: Just this mouthfeel, also from the basic maturity of the wines.

00:41:29: And then what comes in the length.

00:41:30: This is so beautiful side by side.

00:41:32: It also has a great scent here, this “Würzgarten”, you have to...

00:41:35: That's great, the “Würzgarten”.

00:41:37: Well, I'll definitely take care of that,

00:41:39: that there are a few bottles in my cellar,

00:41:41: It's a real machine, the wine.

00:41:42: A “machine”, a “machine”.

00:41:45: Still elegant, but the beauty is, I told you, on the Moselle:

00:41:49: This long maturation on the lees gives it a little something, nothing sweet,

00:41:55: but just extract sweetness, which makes it a little more charming.

00:41:58: Really good!

00:41:58: 2018 was actually also a warm year for us.

00:42:03: It was, it was.

00:42:04: So, when I look back now, 2018 was actually the vintage were we had almost the most opulent Rieslings.

00:42:10: Let's leave 2009 and 2005 out of the equation,

00:42:12: where we simply harvested too late and didn't understand,

00:42:15: that it would have been better somewhere in the time window earlier.

00:42:20: We now know how to deal with this.

00:42:22: But the 18s, you have to say, that's the funny thing,

00:42:25: the slightly higher yields saved us,

00:42:30: that the freshness remains and that it is somehow still lively, elegant.

00:42:36: Sometimes 1,000 liters more on the hectare is better than 1,000 liters less,

00:42:40: because if this vintage had been harvested with lower yields,

00:42:44: then it would have been even more complex.

00:42:46: And so it balanced out wonderfully.

00:42:49: By the way, we can draw the bow to Bourgogne again,

00:42:51: it's the same there,

00:42:52: It was a blessing for them, they finally got some wine.

00:42:55: And these wines are very balanced.

00:42:58: Super nice. So also the 21s, 22s, as single vintages, but with high yields,

00:43:03: are super elegant wines, not too fat.

00:43:07: 2021 is a really great vintage anyway, isn't it?

00:43:09: 21 is a relatively cool year.

00:43:13: And that takes patience. They take longer.

00:43:15: This is a vintage where you just have to say, don't open the bottle too early.

00:43:17: But a classic vintage, in principle I

00:43:21: always compare the 21 with the last great vintage before global warming.

00:43:26: And that was 90, wasn't it?

00:43:28: That was 90?

00:43:29: Yes, and the climate data are even comparable from both years.

00:43:33: And that is a curiosity, because 1990 was considered a ripe year back then.

00:43:38: Very great vintage, mature vintage.

00:43:40: So today a cold year in global warming is

00:43:43: a great warm year before global warming.

00:43:49: And they are already similar, they have similarities.

00:43:52: For me, 90 and 21 are very similar.

00:43:55: 90 is great to drink today, great wines.

00:44:00: Now when you have them against each other in the glass like that....

00:44:03: Yes, there's this spiciness, you notice it in both.

00:44:08: So you can smell it. Of course, the Mosel can never...

00:44:14: So let's put it this way, if there are only healthy grapes,

00:44:16: of course we'll never get the alcohol in there, that's clear.

00:44:19: That's why you can

00:44:23: compensate a little bit, I say, this “lack”,

00:44:26: so this slight deficit of alcohol,

00:44:29: with this long yeast storage.

00:44:32: Whether this is a deficit now...

00:44:35: But you know what I mean.

00:44:36: I totally know. The way I see it, let's not talk about alcohol, let's talk about complexity.

00:44:41: And the “Würzgarten”, that in no way is

00:44:46: ranking behind the “Morstein”, concerning the texture of a great dry wine.

00:44:51: Both are great representatives of their terroir.

00:44:57: So you just, you have this “Ürz-Würz” theme...

00:44:59: ... “Ürz-Würz”. You really have... Yes, that's right.

00:45:03: That's a synonym for an aroma that simply moves.

00:45:09: I believe that this way of making is world class,

00:45:12: that it conveys the vineyard site with great sensitivity

00:45:17: into the scenario of a great dry wine.

00:45:20: And that's wonderful.

00:45:21: And I mean, let's not kid ourselves.

00:45:24: The treasure of the Moselle are these steep slopes with this special soil

00:45:27: and the old vines.

00:45:31: If we have vines in Rheinhessen that are 50 years old,

00:45:34: we are proud of it.

00:45:36: Phylloxera, the "Reblaus", has simply not allowed the staying of the vines.

00:45:42: And in Rheinhessen, it has to be said quite clearly,

00:45:44: in the easier cultivateable areas, you also have a lot of

00:45:48: replanting earlier because it was more yield-oriented.

00:45:53: And there are also cultural differences.

00:45:59: When I came to the Moselle,

00:46:01: after getting to know my wife Eva and then went to the first wine festivals

00:46:04: and realized that you can drink almost all the wines at the wine stand,

00:46:08: even if you don't know the winemakers... You can't do that in Rheinhessen...

00:46:10: Then I said: Wow, they make really good wine here.

00:46:14: On the Moselle, there's already an overall winemaking craft.

00:46:19: And there are a few cellars in every village where you know there's good wine down there.

00:46:24: Because they do it properly.

00:46:25: Because they do it with heart and soul, because they do it the way they learned it.

00:46:28: And now I don't want to say that this doesn't exist in Rheinhessen.

00:46:32: But Rheinhessen of course has a slightly different

00:46:34: agricultural approach, which was not this winemaking per se.

00:46:42: These were mixed farms that ultimately lived from agriculture, livestock farming and viticulture.

00:46:47: And of course there was no such specialization.

00:46:50: For mixed farms we don't have the land.

00:46:53: Then you only did viticulture, if you didn't have farms

00:46:56: with an unbelievable amount of land.

00:46:58: You're not going to send cows up the steep slopes now.

00:47:00: Yes, everyone has had a cow and wine.

00:47:02: But less than a mixed farm,

00:47:06: more like this in the garden.

00:47:10: But on the other hand, they couldn't exist either.

00:47:12: Because everything became so small because of the real inheritance division,

00:47:14: that they couldn't exist on it either.

00:47:17: And now, you say, do we do Pinot first?

00:47:19: Or do we do these two first?

00:47:22: Maybe the Pinot first, because the others are sweet.

00:47:25: Exactly, yes. I would have thought so too.

00:47:25: Yours is also residual sweet, isn't it?

00:47:27: Let's leave that out, that was the backup bottle.

00:47:30: If it had had cork.

00:47:32: This is a very young 23 “Estate” Riesling.

00:47:35: Oh, 23.

00:47:36: If so, we should have started with that. We'll have a look at the bottle in the cooler.

00:47:40: And we'll try it next time.

00:47:41: It's all good.

00:47:43: This great winery in Bernkastel-...

00:47:46: Kues. Kues, haha.

00:47:48: Bernkastel. Bernkastel!

00:47:50: Yes, okay. Other side of the Rhine, uh Moselle side.

00:47:51: Yes, that's the “ebsch Seit`”, "the nasty side", over there.

00:47:54: It's like us, you don't want to mix it up.

00:47:55: No, you don't really have that, right?

00:47:57: Or is that also the case?

00:47:58: Yes, but now see how he values it.

00:48:00: Listen, the "Kueser" people over there, sorry.

00:48:03: But if you take the Moselle in general, that's the way it is,

00:48:06: times the "Große Lage", the Grand Cru vineyard site, is on the left,

00:48:08: times it is on the right side of the river.

00:48:09: But always where it is right now, is...

00:48:10: But the people of Kues have never had any Grand Cru vineyard sites.

00:48:13: No, of course not.

00:48:15: I understand that, of course.

00:48:17: So, your winery in Bernkastel?

00:48:19: Yes, so!

00:48:21: Great, of course.

00:48:23: World-renowned, but

00:48:26: what can be found everywhere,

00:48:29: is “Dr.L”.

00:48:31: That's not from your winery, is it?

00:48:33: But it makes you famous all over the world.

00:48:36: Of course, that came from my winery.

00:48:37: That's where it started.

00:48:40: Very simple story.

00:48:43: 1994 said my English importer:

00:48:47: Nigel Blunder from Grundel.

00:48:50: He then said so nicely:

00:48:52: Ernst, tell me,

00:48:55: how should we poor English people

00:48:57: ever understand a German label

00:49:00: which says,

00:49:01: “Schloßböckelheimer Kupfergrube Riesling Trockenbeerenauslese”?

00:49:06: Difficult. I said: Nigel, I got your point.

00:49:11: I will create you a label.

00:49:16: I said I will create you a label,

00:49:18: that even you poor Englishmen will understand.

00:49:22: So, then I came 4 weeks, 6 weeks later and

00:49:25: said, okay,

00:49:27: no “Schloßböckelheimer Kupfergrube

00:49:29: Riesling Trockenbeerenauslese”

00:49:30: I have simply shortened

00:49:32: “Dr. Loosen” to "Dr.L".

00:49:33: Yes.

00:49:35: Only vintage and “Riesling” written on it.

00:49:37: No “Mosel”, no nothing.

00:49:38: So just vintage, “Riesling” and of course a logo.

00:49:41: And we called it “Loosen Brothers”.

00:49:43: In the beginning it was called Dr. Loosen,

00:49:46: because it still came from our own vineyards,

00:49:49: Village vineyard sites and all that,

00:49:50: which we then turned into “Dr. L”.

00:49:52: So the whole thing was very successful.

00:49:55: That thing exploded, didn't it?

00:49:58: It's so successful, I didn't have

00:50:01: enough vineyards anymore.

00:50:02: And then since 1993,

00:50:04: we were then VDP.

00:50:05: And then you weren't necessarily allowed to make additional purchases.

00:50:07: And according to the VDP it always had to have a different label.

00:50:12: And that was all realized in the same story.

00:50:17: So then,

00:50:18: because we were no longer allowed to do this under the name of “Dr. Loosen”,

00:50:22: we founded a company called “Gebrüder Loosen”. My two brothers were there too.

00:50:25: We then had “Dr. L, Loosen Bros.” written underneath,

00:50:32: “Loosen Brothers”.

00:50:34: And still vintage, “Riesling”.

00:50:36: And the label has existed unchanged since 1994, 1995.

00:50:42: The whole world knows it.

00:50:44: Yes, now in, I don't know, 90 countries worldwide.

00:50:47: You're selling... come on, tell me,

00:50:49: underhand how many bottles you're selling.

00:50:51: Only my brother knows that.

00:50:52: Ah, he doesn't want to tell you that.

00:50:53: Watch out...

00:50:54: Watch out,

00:50:55: we were, that was, let it have been 2016 or so,

00:51:00: traveling together in Australia,

00:51:02: at a big Riesling event with some German winemakers.

00:51:06: And flew from Sydney to Melbourne.

00:51:09: And then took a cab to the hotel.

00:51:11: We sat in one of those little buses,

00:51:14: Ernie's cell phone rings.

00:51:16: And then he gets the message,

00:51:17: that he had cracked the last market in Southeast Asia.

00:51:21: Unfortunately, that was still not North Korea.

00:51:24: I don't think that works anymore either. Oooooh.

00:51:28: Of course you have to do a bit of an “incentive”.

00:51:33: Of course you have to put a cruise missile in the container.

00:51:37: Something with a red ribbon: “Greetings from the Moselle”.

00:51:40: You've got these contacts with that arms dealer there who makes those wine things.

00:51:47: But that's also his ambition... That's great too.

00:52:00: I still remember that, you were really happy back then.

00:52:03: That was a pleasure for you.

00:52:05: Nice that it worked out.

00:52:08: The fact,

00:52:09: that today “Loosen” wine is drunk all over the world,

00:52:11: and that he is the best ambassador for German wine per se in his person, because he also works like a madman.

00:52:21: It's these presentations, this serving of wine,

00:52:25: telling everyone what's behind it.

00:52:29: And to repeat that again and again, to be diligent.

00:52:32: And then I feel like this when I think oh, I don't feel like it anymore...

00:52:35: I can already see it in your face.

00:52:38: And you see, Ernie is still going for it.

00:52:40: We were traveling together in the U.S.A. If you see how he does it,

00:52:44: then you can't say: Phew, now I'm out of it.

00:52:47: Then you just have to go on.

00:52:50: So traveling with Ernie, ooh, exhausting.

00:52:53: Yes, there's always something going on.

00:52:55: And we have just opened three markets again this year.

00:53:00: We have a new importer in Fiji,

00:53:01: in Mongolia and Macedonia.

00:53:07: Yes, madness.

00:53:08: My sales manager has even changed her vacation now.

00:53:13: She said, oh, we have a new man in Macedonia now.

00:53:16: I convinced my husband, he's not in the wine business,

00:53:18: to go on vacation to Macedonia now.

00:53:21: Oh, that's love!

00:53:22: Let's see what he's doing there.

00:53:24: I said, Anne, so listen, not that your husband will be angry later.

00:53:29: No, no, he likes to do that.

00:53:32: So when I saw you...

00:53:34: You also need passionate people, that's also important.

00:53:35: Yes, that's important.

00:53:36: You can't do everything on your own. How many countries are you in?

00:53:40: So now with the new three: 93.

00:53:42: Insane.

00:53:43: That's really strong.

00:53:45: Africa is still missing. That's the next thing.

00:53:45: I have that now, with a couple of French people, they said, yes, you have to go to Africa, don't you?

00:53:50: You know, that's the last one...

00:53:54: You'll make the move. Come on, let's drink to that!

00:53:55: I don't know, to Sierra Leone with one of those bulletproof vests.

00:54:04: And one of those “Dr. L” bings.

00:54:07: That could be something, listen.

00:54:10: Yes, we have all that.

00:54:12: We were just about to do that.

00:54:14: Exactly, we did.

00:54:14: We always have one of those men's rounds, don't we?

00:54:16: And there's Sahr, a friend of ours.

00:54:18: That's the brother of this one, I have nothing to do with football now,

00:54:21: you know better, what's his name, Antonio Rüdiger, isn't it?

00:54:23: They are from Sierra Leone.

00:54:26: Yes.

00:54:27: Sahr said, he's in one of our men's groups,

00:54:29: where we meet once a year our notary, the lawyer and everyone,

00:54:32: that you need in life, right?

00:54:34: There they are in there.

00:54:36: The Sahr said, come on, let's go to Sierra Leone.

00:54:39: Yeah, great, sure.

00:54:41: We always wanted to anyway, you can make a few contacts down there, right?

00:54:44: But then my lawyer and my notary backed out.

00:54:48: Were worried.

00:54:49: Yes, we still have children to take care of.

00:54:51: We still have a little time to live... Yes, but I also have a dog...

00:54:56: But how did you, well, that's really...

00:55:01: Good, you've told me that now,

00:55:03: you had to fix it for the English, but let's be honest,

00:55:07: that's quite an achievement, now so worldwide.

00:55:10: So, a little story from Denmark, small town, Tonder, Tönne,

00:55:15: a small café, nothing else, but “Dr.Loosen” wine.

00:55:19: “Dr.L”.

00:55:21: And swears by it, doesn't he?

00:55:25: “I prefer to drink German wine, “Dr.L”.

00:55:28: Like in the middle of nowhere in Australia.

00:55:32: Or people from the Maldives, they write to me too: “This is my favorite wine,

00:55:39: We were on a small island there and we only drank your wine there,

00:55:43: that's my wife's favorite wine.” Or people who then know the wine...

00:55:47: ...I don't know if I can tell something like that here now.

00:55:52: Tell me, it's just us.

00:55:55: That was somewhere in China, wasn't it?

00:55:58: And the guy who wanted

00:56:01: to hit on a girl.

00:56:03: Very, very pretty, isn't she?

00:56:04: Well, then he's been ordering such expensive Bordeaux wines all this time.

00:56:06: But that's always difficult for girls who don't drink wine.

00:56:11: And then the sommelier said to him:

00:56:14: Listen, if this should

00:56:18: work out tonight,

00:56:19: then you have to open another wine. Then he asked: What is it?

00:56:22: I have a wine, Riesling, fruity, Kabinett, “Wehlener Sonnenuhr”.

00:56:26: And then he said, yes, but how much does it cost?

00:56:27: Yes, of course not with high prices, because he wanted to impress her.

00:56:31: That's not expensive. I can't impress her.

00:56:34: Trust me,

00:56:35: Open it up, yeah.

00:56:37: So he opened the bottle of Kabinett.

00:56:40: And it started... And they drank two bottles.

00:56:43: A year later they were married, and she only served “Wehlener Sonnenuhr” Kabinett at the wedding.

00:56:49: Yes.

00:56:50: Yes, that went well.

00:56:53: That's how it goes.

00:56:54: And yet it is fitting that we drink the Burgundy now, because that's,

00:57:00: as far as I know Ernie, one of his passions,

00:57:03: that he naturally likes Burgundy even more deeply matured.

00:57:09: But it's nice too.

00:57:10: And I thought, okay, then I'll take one with me, just to make him happy.

00:57:18: But that also has something to do with it.

00:57:20: For me, Pinot Noir and Riesling are

00:57:23: The White and Red Twin, isn't it.

00:57:25: So, they're like twins.

00:57:26: The red and white twin.

00:57:28: Because Pinot Noir and Riesling have an incredible number of similarities,

00:57:31: even if they are now two different wines.

00:57:34: But that's what you always say, according to the motto, if you close your eyes,

00:57:35: you can't tell the difference.

00:57:37: But honestly, I do want to differentiate.

00:57:39: No, no, no, but old Burgundy and old Riesling both have that,

00:57:44: what we call "Firn".

00:57:46: This firn, the French call it something else.

00:57:48: Old Burgundies and old Rieslings, Auslese, from the Mosel, 59s or something.

00:57:54: They get the same aromas.

00:57:56: Old Burgundies get the extract sugar, the “extract sweetness”.

00:58:02: Great mature Burgundies become sweet with age,

00:58:07: while old Auslese wines from the Mosel become drier and drier.

00:58:10: They are very similar in terms of sweetness.

00:58:14: The Burgundy becomes sweetish with age, the old Auslese from 1959 or so,

00:58:19: which were not so sweet back then.

00:58:21: There were no 90 grams of residual sugar, such an Auslese was bottled with maybe 40 grams of residual sugar.

00:58:25: And after 30, 40 years it still had a very nice sweetness.

00:58:29: But he wasn't as sweet as he was when he was young.

00:58:31: And that also evens out.

00:58:34: It has more to do with the aroma.

00:58:37: Okay.

00:58:37: They are similar in terms of aroma, they are similar in terms of sweetness

00:58:42: and that's why they have so much in common and then Pinot Noir and Riesling are both

00:58:46: “cool climate grapes”.

00:58:49: So they need a cooler climate.

00:58:52: And need a certain soil, to become really excellent.

00:58:57: You can't just grow Pinot Noir and Riesling anywhere.

00:58:59: He knows his stuff. This is madness.

00:59:01: And that's why there are so many similarities.

00:59:06: Not because you're supposed to close your eyes and figure one out.

00:59:11: These wines are so similar.

00:59:14: Yes.

00:59:15: We were recently together at a rarities tasting with...

00:59:17: Oh yes, I've seen the pictures, you had fun, you two...

00:59:20: Yes, it was a great tasting.

00:59:22: And the Ernie...

00:59:22: At the, at the, at the, at the...

00:59:23: ...was actually the only contact person who really

00:59:28: had orientation blindly in this maturity, because he simply knows his way around.

00:59:34: So, you can taste it all?

00:59:35: You know, new world, old world...

00:59:38: He's a “Brain”!

00:59:38: So tell me, how else are you going to get experience?

00:59:40: You have to drink for 40 years.

00:59:43: So I mean...

00:59:44: only reading into it...

00:59:45: ...you can't do that. No!

00:59:46: You must have drunk a lot in your life.

00:59:50: hangyournoseintherandsaythisisextremelytastyhere...

00:59:55: Ah yes, I see.

00:59:57: I'm working on it.

00:59:59: But he is grand, this 2009.

01:00:00: I think it's nice too.

01:00:01: That's really great.

01:00:01: I haven't even opened it yet.

01:00:02: I always have my allocation, but the...

01:00:03: ...a real treat for the palate.

01:00:05: I always like the Santenots, but this is really great.

01:00:08: Although he's retired now.

01:00:09: His daughter does that, or who does that now?

01:00:12: Yes.

01:00:12: And then it's not so good, is it?

01:00:14: No, but then you no longer have the contacts.

01:00:16: Yes.

01:00:17: The young people, of course they're like that in Burgundy...

01:00:19: I have a few bottles of it, thank God,

01:00:21: because it's my daughter's birth vintage.

01:00:23: Oh, and you brought that with you? Great!

01:00:24: And let me put it this way, I had the basic theory,

01:00:29: once she's confirmed and has no interest,

01:00:31: I can start drinking.

01:00:32: But she is interested.

01:00:33: She is interested. Crap.

01:00:34: But...

01:00:35: So, now she's going to claim her vintage.

01:00:36: Do the math, it really is still a young girl.

01:00:39: Yes.

01:00:40: She drinks Kabinett. And that's okay.

01:00:41: Oh, but that's nice.

01:00:43: Comes after mom.

01:00:44: The Mosel-Kabinett from mom and that's something too, which I think is okay.

01:00:47: But I started much worse than that.

01:00:48: And when the father opens a bottle every now and then,

01:00:51: come on, so...

01:00:52: Today she forgives it, in 10 years she won't,

01:00:54: she knows then.

01:00:55: That is of course...

01:00:56: So that's very clever, because that's...

01:00:58: So for me, Lafon, the red Lafons are very big for me,

01:01:01: but they are neglected in the market.

01:01:04: Now that you say that, probably not anymore,

01:01:06: now the prices are shooting up.

01:01:07: But you can still get them for a decent price.

01:01:10: If it were a famous red wine producer,

01:01:14: then you would have to pay five times as much.

01:01:15: You can still get them at a decent price

01:01:17: and they can age incredibly.

01:01:19: Those Lafon reds can age like crazy, as well as his whites.

01:01:24: So this is such a palate-pleaser for me,

01:01:27: that's really full.

01:01:29: And also now the maturity, what does he have now, 14 years, 15 years

01:01:32: on the hump.

01:01:33: That's a great one.

01:01:34: Perfect, isn't it? 15, 20 years, then you can start drinking it.

01:01:36: So you're picking me up with that now too, you see.

01:01:38: You see. It's as simple as that.

01:01:41: I often had difficulties with Pinot, but this...

01:01:45: Yes, we've also often had young Pinots here. They are of course a bit more demanding.

01:01:47: Yes, that's right, they really jolted on my palate, yes.

01:01:51: But it's the same with Riesling.

01:01:54: When they're grande, they're grande.

01:01:56: But when Riesling is great, you can also drink it young.

01:02:00: It's also really fun when it's young. That's right, yes.

01:02:01: Yes, because of course we don't have these tannins and the wood.

01:02:05: Yes.

01:02:06: It's clear, a great Riesling you can also drink young.

01:02:08: I think so too.

01:02:09: Yes, that's the nice thing about Riesling, you can drink one young and one old.

01:02:11: But most wines...

01:02:12: I know, but unfortunately most of them don't get that old in my house...

01:02:13: ...you can either drink them young, or, let's say, Pinot, nice and old, or Bordeaux,

01:02:18: but that's all changed nowadays with the high alcohol levels in Bordeaux.

01:02:21: Yes, with...

01:02:22: ...you don't have to lay aside anymore. Yes.

01:02:23: You used to have to lay them down.

01:02:25: That's...

01:02:25: That's why it's still like that with Bordeaux. the 80s and early 90s are still a dream.

01:02:32: And then you get into the younger realms and then...

01:02:35: I'm losing my bearings a bit,

01:02:36: I know between 2003 and...

01:02:40: ...2012.

01:02:41: Yes, I would say I still understand up to 2005.

01:02:44: From then on there comes a phase where I don't know how to deal with the wines.

01:02:48: Because of course they also have 14.5% and even more alcohol.

01:02:50: At the moment I'll just leave them lying.

01:02:52: But I recently had an experience that was also nice:

01:02:55: This was the second wine from Montrose from 2012.

01:02:58: I got this poured in a glass just like that, I thought it was delicious.

01:03:02: But I wouldn't have come to the idea of opening a 12 myself,

01:03:05: because you actually kind of...

01:03:07: ...think he must be even older? Yes.

01:03:09: So Bordeaux has to be relearned because of the climatic changes.

01:03:13: The ones from the old school under old climate data,

01:03:17: is today from the 80s, 90s, wonderful.

01:03:20: Or 70s, so we are “Old Donkeys”, we drink the old stuff.

01:03:25: You two can get these things everywhere, that's also...

01:03:28: No, the crazy thing is, you can get 70s, 80s today,

01:03:32: cheaper than the new vintages. Oh, come on.

01:03:34: That's why it makes no sense at all to actually buy new vintages

01:03:37: for expensive money and then lay them aside,

01:03:39: until you are 100 years old.

01:03:41: Buy the whole 70s, 80s, at a good price?

01:03:43: I have just bought 400, 500 bottles, just 70s.

01:03:47: Only 500 bottles? You have to have something to drink.

01:03:49: Aha, I see.

01:03:50: For science!

01:03:53: No wonder you know your stuff so well.

01:03:57: Yes, but that was a good chance.

01:03:59: You take such opportunities with you, but then you can also sell it on.

01:04:03: Ah, they sort of call you, offer you that?

01:04:05: Yes, that was a coincidence.

01:04:07: Yes, good.

01:04:08: Great wines.

01:04:09: So, but now back again, so now we have said,

01:04:12: so you're represented everywhere, you're very committed to it.

01:04:15: Kabi?

01:04:16: In a bit.

01:04:18: Yes, I'm working on it.

01:04:20: So, now you have a winery in America too.

01:04:23: Is that also “Dr. L”?

01:04:25: No, no, no, no, that's a separate...

01:04:28: The one winery is called “J. Christopher”,

01:04:31: the other winery is called “Appassionata Vineyards”.

01:04:34: And two different ideas.

01:04:38: One is “J. Christopher”, who also has additional purchase.

01:04:44: So buying grapes, which is very common in the USA.

01:04:47: They don't know the difference between Domaine and additional purchase.

01:04:51: The world there is actually still rather separated.

01:04:54: The winegrowers produce grapes,

01:04:55: the winemakers buy the grapes and make wine.

01:04:58: That is actually

01:04:59: the same as it was with us 100 years ago.

01:05:01: I also thought they made tons of them too, like this...

01:05:03: Yes, but of course they're also big...

01:05:05: But they are grape producers.

01:05:07: And the other one, “Appassionata Vineyards”,

01:05:10: so that's a small Domaine,

01:05:12: where everything comes only from their own vineyards.

01:05:15: So rather the "Old World" idea.

01:05:18: And here with “Appassionata”

01:05:21: the wines are always brought to the market with a certain maturity.

01:05:24: That means nobody else does that in America.

01:05:28: As with “Appassionata”, “Fortissimo”, for example, is the name,

01:05:32: comes out now...

01:05:33: ...He goes fast.

01:05:34: No, the 2012 is just coming out now.

01:05:35: I see, “Fortissimo” is going slowly.

01:05:37: No, “Appassionata” is a sonata...

01:05:40: All our New World wines are named after Beethoven.

01:05:44: “Eroica”, ‘Appassionata’, “Appassionata” is a sonata by Beethoven.

01:05:49: And of course I didn't want an Old World classification,

01:05:52: Premier Cru, Village, Grand Cru. That's silly, that doesn't exist in the New World.

01:05:56: Don't they understand this in the New World either?

01:05:57: Yes, they do, they already buy Burgundy and whatnot, of course.

01:06:01: But I don't want just transfer anything from the Old World

01:06:03: into the New World.

01:06:05: We also have our classifications

01:06:07: within our own winery.

01:06:10: And the CEO, Kirk, he studied “Conducting”,

01:06:16: so what does that mean, conductor.

01:06:18: And so he is a great musician...

01:06:21: ...And this is a very great man.

01:06:24: Incredibly sensitive, delicate.

01:06:27: 32 years with us already, yes.

01:06:29: And you studied archaeology?

01:06:31: And he came up with the idea and said,

01:06:34: why don't we take these three “movements”,

01:06:37: these three tempi from the “Sonata Appassionata”

01:06:39: as our classification.

01:06:42: And this sonata begins with an Allegro,

01:06:46: then goes into the Andante and ends with the Fortissimo.

01:06:48: We therefore have three classifications with our wine

01:06:52: in “Appassionata”, which we name after the tempi.

01:06:55: Very intellectual. A thought has just occurred to me.

01:06:57: Now it's like, it's probably not Ernie's thing,

01:07:01: but with his hair alone he could

01:07:03: as a conductor celebrate incredible successes.

01:07:05: Beethoven also had such a mane.

01:07:07: When you start to shake.

01:07:08: Now a question:

01:07:10: Do only Democrats buy this?

01:07:11: I have no idea. I just know,

01:07:13: 90% is of course USA.

01:07:14: Only the educated American drinker?

01:07:16: Yes, yes.

01:07:18: Because they're more expensive, of course, and we only bring them

01:07:21: on the market when they are 3, 4 or 6 years or 12 years old.

01:07:26: Madness.

01:07:27: This is unusual for America, they are normally selling everything directly,

01:07:29: they don't usually do that.

01:07:31: And as I said, “J. Christopher”, the winery that buys

01:07:35: and also leases from others.

01:07:38: Do you sleep in between?

01:07:41: Or how do you keep it up?

01:07:42: Yes, on the plane. I can sleep anywhere. In the cab, on the plane. Anywhere.

01:07:43: That's an advantage, of course, if you can do that.

01:07:50: “J. Christopher” is Pinot Noir.

01:07:51: Yes and “Appassionata”, that's all Pinot Noir.

01:07:54: Yes, well, sometimes my employees say,

01:07:56: why are you sending us emails at 3:30 in the morning?

01:07:59: Because then I have peace and quiet.

01:08:05: So, your assistant said,

01:08:07: your biggest shortcoming is actually that you can't say “no”.

01:08:10: Is that so?

01:08:12: Yes, that is a problem.

01:08:13: But that's clear, I mean, I get requested, can you go here and can you go there?

01:08:18: And anything else.

01:08:19: You always say, yeah, okay, whatever.

01:08:23: Well, he was strict with me.

01:08:24: That was great, I called him and said, yes, hello... Us directly? On the phone?

01:08:27: Yes, you've already forgotten that.

01:08:29: I guess I didn't leave a lasting impression.

01:08:32: And then it was like that, he said directly: Dates, no.

01:08:36: All that... No!

01:08:37: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

01:08:38: Because my secretary, Petra, always says: Well, if you're asked anything now,

01:08:43: then just say, talk to my secretary.

01:08:47: Just like Anja in export, she says:

01:08:51: You don't say anything more and you don't give out any prices.

01:08:54: Just say: Call Anja.

01:08:58: He did that quite vehemently. At first he was totally so:

01:09:00: Yes, yes, yes, yes. No.

01:09:02: It goes like this. OK, great.

01:09:04: And now we're in Kabinett-time.

01:09:08: “Möselchen” That's a 12.

01:09:12: 2012 “Wehlener Sonnenuhr” Kabinett Tradition.

01:09:15: And that's a story again.

01:09:18: I told you, with the GG, Grand Cru, so Reserve,

01:09:21: we took up again our great-grandfather's

01:09:24: dry wine production,

01:09:27: two years on the barrel.

01:09:28: We are of course technically better equipped today,

01:09:30: we don't have that much work with it, we leave it on the lees again.

01:09:32: So we stop them.

01:09:35: And then "Tradition" because before 1971,

01:09:40: we call the 71 wine law

01:09:41: still our new wine law.

01:09:44: In '71, the law was changed by saying,

01:09:47: the wine must have at least 7% alcohol,

01:09:51: the rest can be residual sweet.

01:09:53: But before 1971, the old wine law, i.e. from the 40s, 50s, 60s,

01:09:58: the residual sugar in a very complicated formula

01:10:01: was limited for “Kabinett” and “Spätlese”.

01:10:05: That is, a “Kabinett” of its time, until 1971,

01:10:09: was only allowed to have 20 to 25 grams of residual sugar.

01:10:12: This is why all “Kabinett” wines were off-dry at the time.

01:10:15: With 1971, when this was abolished,

01:10:19: the "Kabinett" suddenly doubled to

01:10:21: 50 grams and more, so one of them once had 70 grams.

01:10:26: They got sweeter and sweeter,

01:10:28: because the "Wine Spectator" in

01:10:30: America only rated residual sweet wines.

01:10:33: A Kabinett with 70 g residual sugar received a higher score

01:10:36: than one with 50 grams of residual sugar. Crazy.

01:10:37: And a Kabinett with 25 g got no points at all.

01:10:40: And that, of course, led to an undesirable development,

01:10:43: in my view, on the Moselle.

01:10:45: Things got sweeter and sweeter, sweeter and sweeter,

01:10:47: but that, of course, was always more and more rejected in Germany,

01:10:50: because people say it's become too sweet for me.

01:10:53: That's why we started it again,

01:10:56: because I have drunk an old "Kabinett" from grandpa

01:10:58: from the 40s and 50s.

01:11:01: You see, archaeology won out in the end...

01:11:06: Looking back has helped,

01:11:09: to shape the Dr. Loosen winery into this structure.

01:11:11: Then I did so very slowly, always so partially,

01:11:15: In '93 I made a wine in this way, a Spätlese,

01:11:18: two years in the barrel,

01:11:21: such a good Spätlese with

01:11:22: reduced residual sugar of 30, 35 g only.

01:11:25: Then I made a Spätlese in 1997, 1998.

01:11:28: And from 2012 we made the “Tradition” regularly,

01:11:32: that means we always make a "Kabinett" every year,

01:11:34: a Spätlese or a Auslese in these “Tradition” - idea

01:11:37: with the reduced residual sugar,

01:11:39: two years on the full lees, they

01:11:42: are then bottled after two years,

01:11:43: but here we have to filter,

01:11:45: of course, with the residual sugar.

01:11:47: But everyone has 25, 26 g of residual sugar... That's nice!

01:11:50: And I confess, my glass is empty, I'll pour another one.

01:11:53: Yes, two years on the lees and the wines

01:11:56: are only released after ten years on the bottle.

01:11:58: It will be on the market now, at the end of the year.

01:12:01: 2012?

01:12:02: Yes, it's not even on the market yet.

01:12:03: Crazy. But great! And we're already drinking it!

01:12:06: He can go out already!

01:12:08: I would say he can go out!

01:12:10: Because our grandpa only ever drank "Kabinett",

01:12:12: who were at least 15, 20 years old.

01:12:14: To grandpa! To grandpa!

01:12:16: We're still benefiting from that today, aren't we?

01:12:19: Really great wine! But how fresh it still is, isn't it? 2012. Great acidity.

01:12:22: Yes, and we're in the texture

01:12:25: still like the “Sonnenuhr”, like the first one.

01:12:27: Yes, this elegance, finesse.

01:12:30: This is very delicate! Fruit.

01:12:30: Blue slate soil, wonderful!

01:12:33: Very nice!

01:12:34: And let's be honest, a Kabinett doesn't need more residual sugar.

01:12:36: This is beautiful, simply beautiful.

01:12:38: With the classic Selection, I also learned that from Ernie,

01:12:43: we're talking about grapes that are very ripe,

01:12:45: but not botrytized.

01:12:47: Yes, not so much botrytis, but only 10, 20% botrytis in it, very little.

01:12:50: Others work a lot with botrytis for these residual sweetnesses, don't they?

01:12:52: And this classic Auslese doesn't need more than,

01:12:57: I don't know, 95, 100 degrees Oechsle maximum,

01:13:00: that's almost too much.

01:13:02: We don't go over 90, those were the old "Auslese",

01:13:04: that was already a Gold Capsule with 90 back then.

01:13:07: We don't go over 90, they get a nice maturity,

01:13:11: but still a great acidity, a racy acidity.

01:13:13: We have now tasted the “Erdener Treppchen” from the barrel,

01:13:15: Tradition, still incredibly reductive, great acidity,

01:13:18: only 40 g residual sugar, is super cool.

01:13:21: But of course it won't be released until 2036.

01:13:24: Which makes me wonder...

01:13:26: Loosen will also be in Africa by then.

01:13:29: Set, yes, North Korea too, I guess.

01:13:31: I have a younger brother, he's also the brains in the family.

01:13:36: So you're not the brains?

01:13:38: I'm just the clown of the family.

01:13:40: The brother calculates everything, even to 3 decimal places,

01:13:42: so he's someone with numbers.

01:13:44: Yes, he studied mechanical engineering. He's so “straight”.

01:13:46: And then every time we used to sit at the table and said,

01:13:52: we put it in the barrel for three more years, or two more years...

01:13:55: Then he does the math and says no. ...and we put it away for 10 years,

01:13:57: then he says: I have no more space.

01:14:00: I somehow have 6 - 700,000 bottles there

01:14:03: in the cellar by now.

01:14:04: You have to be able to afford that first,

01:14:06: the extension, so to speak. More and more, more and more.

01:14:07: We put away about 60,000 bottles every year.

01:14:10: That's crazy. That's quite something after 10 years.

01:14:11: But this is all from the Dr. Loosen winery now?

01:14:14: Yes, yes, yes.

01:14:16: Then he says, I have no more room.

01:14:19: I've already rented four cellars, they're all full to the brim. I don't know where to put it anymore.

01:14:23: Quite simply, you have to rent another cellar.

01:14:24: I don't know what all this is about anyway.

01:14:30: I always thought we produced wine to sell,

01:14:33: not always just to put away.

01:14:34: That's what I said: Thomas.

01:14:36: Thomas, that's his name, super guy, really.

01:14:38: Well, without him, I have to be honest...

01:14:40: Thomas, here's to you!

01:14:42: Maybe he hears that.

01:14:42: Yes, absolutely.

01:14:43: Well then, Thomas, good math.

01:14:46: But Thomas, listen.

01:14:47: We had a vision, didn't we?

01:14:48: I have this vision that we make wines,

01:14:52: like 120 years ago, like our great-grandfather.

01:14:54: and like our grandfather.

01:14:57: And put them away, just like the old people used to drink it.

01:15:00: One day we'll be the only ones,

01:15:02: who are able to sell

01:15:04: matured wines in commercial quantities.

01:15:07: In other words, everyone has a little bit,

01:15:09: Treasure chamber and all that.

01:15:10: But then we have commercial quantities,

01:15:12: like the 93, which has been there for 30 years now.

01:15:14: How much of the 93 do you still have?

01:15:15: So 4,000 bottles.

01:15:17: 4,000 bottles!

01:15:18: You only make 2,000 bottles of the one.

01:15:21: But an 81, where I still have 1,000 bottles,

01:15:24: which has been on the barrel for 27 years,

01:15:26: on the lees, 27 years on the lees.

01:15:28: It will not be released until 2031, i.e. when it is 50 years old.

01:15:31: Crazy.

01:15:32: All that stuff.

01:15:33: And what does Thomas say?

01:15:34: And then I say to him, I have a vision.

01:15:36: That's going to be a really big number one day.

01:15:38: Clearly.

01:15:39: Perhaps I no longer benefit from this,

01:15:42: but your daughters, his eldest

01:15:44: is now beginning to study.

01:15:46: But your daughters, who will be here at some point,

01:15:48: in the winery,

01:15:49: they will profit from it at some point.

01:15:53: I think this is going to be a big one.

01:15:55: We may not be able to profit from this anymore.

01:15:57: But a generation has to invest,

01:15:59: that the next generation, if it is not stupid,

01:16:01: will continue to do so.

01:16:02: Then it always has very old matured wines.

01:16:05: She can offer that every year.

01:16:06: They just have to keep going.

01:16:09: It doesn't cost them anything anymore.

01:16:10: It only cost me.

01:16:11: So, my brother says, you know,

01:16:13: what our old Chancellor Helmut Schmidt said?

01:16:19: Nope, I don't know. What did he say?

01:16:20: If you have visions, go to the doctor.

01:16:23: Yeah, okay. Tommy, wonderful.

01:16:31: But I have the feeling that you you can still come out on top.

01:16:34: No, you have to imagine it like this.

01:16:37: Thomas is truly great.

01:16:40: When you visit the cellar,

01:16:42: the perfection that reigns there,

01:16:45: it's all sensational.

01:16:49: This is all accurate.

01:16:51: I think he loves his machines as much as his wife.

01:16:53: Also innovative ideas,

01:16:57: this is also a “brain”.

01:16:58: Just like him.

01:16:59: Only different.

01:17:00: So your brother is all

01:17:02: important for the winery. That's what I hear.

01:17:04: I wouldn't have had it without my brother.

01:17:08: I only take care of the sales. About my passion. About your visions.

01:17:13: Yes, my visions.

01:17:16: And Tommy, he holds the place together.

01:17:20: Because the production has to work.

01:17:24: You must have all the people there.

01:17:26: I was wondering too, to be honest,

01:17:27: the one in America, the one in France,

01:17:30: now the one at home.

01:17:30: In Australia I have

01:17:31: also a production.

01:17:33: Then the “Loosen Brothers”, so to speak.

01:17:35: I mean, you're jetting

01:17:37: through the whole world.

01:17:39: We also make the wine.

01:17:40: We also have production in Australia.

01:17:43: And yet you have a very clear picture,

01:17:45: how your wine should be.

01:17:46: How does it all work?

01:17:47: I mean, it's actually pretty simple.

01:17:49: I have a very clear idea about wine.

01:17:52: I'm almost a missionary.

01:17:55: We make a GG, Grand Cru, Reserve.

01:17:58: I even called Christmann back then,

01:18:01: whether we could use the “GG” for

01:18:03: our “Appassionata” Riesling.

01:18:05: And in Upstate Washington,

01:18:07: there we also make a GG.

01:18:09: Reserve, 2 years.

01:18:12: I have a flourishing barrel shipping business

01:18:16: to the whole world.

01:18:17: But I do think you are someone,

01:18:19: who wants things to go exactly the way you want...

01:18:21: Of course.

01:18:22: That will be the same.

01:18:22: I do the same in Washington State.

01:18:25: With our “XLC” that is.

01:18:26: This is called an “Extended Lease Contract”.

01:18:29: Two years.

01:18:30: So we do that everywhere.

01:18:32: We do that with Telmo Rodriguez in Spain.

01:18:34: He makes a Riesling with us.

01:18:35: It stays in the bottle for four years.

01:18:39: Good,

01:18:40: Spaniards have patience. More patience than the New World...

01:18:43: It's a question of mentality.

01:18:45: Yes, but that's the way it is.

01:18:47: We are in the year 1997.

01:18:52: Wow.

01:18:53: 25 years now.

01:18:54: A little more.

01:18:55: “Ürziger Würzgarten”,

01:18:57: “Spätlese Tradition”.

01:18:58: Exactly the same, also with such a low residual sweetness at 40.

01:19:02: And now 25 years old.

01:19:04: So we put this one on the market three years ago.

01:19:08: Great that you brought it with you.

01:19:09: And this is now from a plot in the

01:19:11: “Ürziger Würzgarten”,

01:19:12: which is not characterized by red volcanic rock.

01:19:15: But in front of the village

01:19:16: there is red slate.

01:19:18: And red slate brings like the Schubert

01:19:20: always cassis in old age.

01:19:22: This is pure blackcurrant.

01:19:24: Black currant.

01:19:25: And that only ever happens with old wines from the red slate.

01:19:28: Earlier the “Würzgarten”,

01:19:30: that came from the red volcanic stone.

01:19:33: But in front of the village, there we have the red slate.

01:19:35: But now you have to help me.

01:19:36: Because exactly this Cassis

01:19:38: has had the “Gräfenberg” from Wilhelm in 1998.

01:19:43: Yes.

01:19:44: Although that is...

01:19:45: This is actually quartzite.

01:19:49: 1998.

01:19:50: Cold years have that too.

01:19:51: Cool years.

01:19:53: And wet years.

01:19:56: “Kastanienbusch” by Rebholz also had this back then.

01:19:59: But he had...

01:20:00: And it also had red soil.

01:20:01: This is also red slate in the “Kastanienbusch”.

01:20:03: In cold years you either have Sauvignon Blanc-...

01:20:07: So from the Lay, slate,

01:20:08: you often have a Sauvignon Blanc-touch.

01:20:10: When it's cold, the year,

01:20:11: and has a lot of humidity.

01:20:13: Wow, that's brilliant. This is fun.

01:20:15: And has just 8.5% alcohol.

01:20:18: To drink sober.

01:20:20: I told you, our grandma.

01:20:22: Was one of those Italian moms,

01:20:24: so right like this.

01:20:27: But could cook like a pig.

01:20:30: And then in the evening always...

01:20:32: So her favorite aperitif was:

01:20:35: A water glass.

01:20:37: Here so 1/3

01:20:40: you have Pernod.

01:20:41: Yes, she liked Pernod.

01:20:43: And then you usually have

01:20:44: 2/3 water.

01:20:46: And then ice. Lots of ice.

01:20:49: Not so with grandma.

01:20:50: Here it was 1/3 Pernod and

01:20:51: 2/3 Cognac.

01:20:53: No water, cognac.

01:20:54: And we as kids then have

01:20:55: always said: Grandma, grandma,

01:20:57: you're drinking some pretty heavy stuff.

01:20:59: No no no, kids.

01:21:01: There was a lot of ice in there.

01:21:04: Starved to death

01:21:06: a lump of ice.

01:21:08: An ice cube starved to death in the drink.

01:21:10: She dunked two of those things in there.

01:21:14: And then says: Kids, can you go down to the cellar?

01:21:17: Bring me one of those nice old "Möselchen", "Yummy little Moselle".

01:21:18: Such a beautiful old "Kabinett".

01:21:20: I need a bottle now, to sober me up.

01:21:23: We went downstairs and took 15 years old,

01:21:26: 16 year old Kabinette

01:21:28: to bring them to her.

01:21:28: And with 8% alcohol.

01:21:30: The bottle was also thundered in.

01:21:32: And then to bed with an ass full.

01:21:34: But every morning at 7 o'clock in church.

01:21:37: Do you see?

01:21:37: Every morning. They were disciplined, the old ladies.

01:21:40: Disciplined. Disciplined.

01:21:43: This is really nice here.

01:21:45: Really great wine.

01:21:46: It's so delicious.

01:21:47: What is "great" wine?

01:21:49: That tastes good.

01:21:50: You want to tell me now,

01:21:51: the question is stupid? No. It's not stupid.

01:21:53: But in the end it is,

01:21:56: it has to touch you.

01:21:57: You know my goosebumps number too.

01:22:00: Yes, exactly.

01:22:00: That's a very nice expression.

01:22:02: A great wine must touch you.

01:22:04: That's a nice saying.

01:22:05: Nice saying. I like it.

01:22:06: It's true.

01:22:07: Because you can't put a “big wine” into the analysis or something.

01:22:09: No. No.

01:22:11: A “great wine”,

01:22:12: When everyone is sitting there,

01:22:15: have never drunk it and say:

01:22:16: But it's delicious.

01:22:17: You can't explain.

01:22:19: But he touched everyone. Obviously.

01:22:21: Everyone is different.

01:22:22: There are people who don't have the memory for wine.

01:22:24: You have to understand that.

01:22:26: But that's how I feel,

01:22:28: when I've had a "great" wine, I still know it afterwards.

01:22:30: It's stored in the chip card... And it stays there.

01:22:35: And a great wine, that also touches different people.

01:22:38: You know here in Germany, an incredible number of people say:

01:22:40: I don't drink anything sweet. I don't like sweetness or anything else.

01:22:43: But you can give the same people a 2012, or the 1997, or the 1993 and say:

01:22:48: Here, try this. And then they say:

01:22:50: Wow, I like that. I don't normally drink sweet wines, but I like this.

01:22:56: Yes, yes. So you can still convince people who absolutely reject residual sweetness.

01:23:01: And then you give them something like that and then they say: Yes, but that's something else.

01:23:05: He's absolutely right.

01:23:06: Even people who actually reject such things in principle, but say,

01:23:10: Yes, but that's good.

01:23:13: And then it's interesting. Exactly the same with dry.

01:23:18: I also have people who know Moselans who drink sweet wines.

01:23:21: They don't drink anything dry.

01:23:23: And without mercy.

01:23:24: Yes, mercilessly.

01:23:26: Only the Mosel people drink sweet wines to the point of no return. My cousin only drinks Auslese with food.

01:23:31: It's madness. So they start with the Kabinett and and later they end up with the Auslese.

01:23:37: But they binge on selections, Auslesen, until the main course.

01:23:39: Consistent, really consistent.

01:23:41: Unbelievable, in that narrow, deep valley, you know, I've been going there for a long time...

01:23:46: 2,000 years of inbreeding, now he has brought fresh blood to the Moselle.

01:23:51: Philipp has given his all.

01:23:54: Normally we only get new blood every 100 years. Fresh blood. My grandfather came from Berlin.

01:23:58: You see, your family has also played its part.

01:24:01: Yes, that was enough for 100 years.

01:24:04: I often have the feeling that Mosel Riesling is such a

01:24:10: kind of “opener” for many people who otherwise don't drink Riesling.

01:24:15: Because it still has a hint of residual sweetness.

01:24:18: Honestly? I don't know.

01:24:20: Because in the end it's the ...

01:24:25: ...aromatics rather, yes, or what? I don't know.

01:24:27: The essence of Riesling is actually Mosel-Riesling.

01:24:29: Because nowhere else can you taste this grape variety in its purity than on the Moselle.

01:24:37: And with this very, very clearly perceptible terroir touch, like nowhere else.

01:24:43: Well, I mean, a Palatinate or Rhine-Hessian Riesling can be fruity.

01:24:48: Yes, it can be very playful.

01:24:50: But Mosel Riesling always has this DNA of the barren soil.

01:24:56: Yes, always pure, barren, sparse.

01:24:57: And that's why ...

01:24:58: ...You can also see that with this wine, very sparse.

01:24:59: I say: Yes, you can use it to pick up people who might not otherwise have access to it.

01:25:08: But that has nothing to do with the fact that the issue of residual sweetness comes into it.

01:25:14: Then I'm wrong.

01:25:14: But nevertheless I have noticed that many people say, yes, I like the Mosel wines.

01:25:19: Honestly?

01:25:21: I would say it's the other way around.

01:25:24: Did you notice that in Denmark? That's logical.

01:25:26: Yes, but the Moselle in Germany doesn't have a good standing.

01:25:29: The world reputation of the Moselle...

01:25:31: Yes.

01:25:32: ...is undoubtedly there.

01:25:33: But not in Germany.

01:25:34: We don't have a good standing in Germany.

01:25:36: It's actually the other way around, all over the world...

01:25:39: Very difficult.

01:25:40: ...outside Germany, yes.

01:25:42: When you talk about Riesling internationally, they all say "Mosel".

01:25:47: Yes, of course.

01:25:48: And what we do.

01:25:50: But in Germany we have more of a problem.

01:25:51: Because of course, how can I put it, the Riesling from the Mosel was always sweet.

01:25:58: There you have the stigma.

01:25:59: And when it comes to dry wines, we are naturally more meagre.

01:26:03: A very young, dry Riesling from the Mosel,

01:26:07: it's very sparse, also a bit brittle.

01:26:10: Then, I have to be honest, against a Riesling from the Palatinate

01:26:14: Or Rheinhessen here, or something, it can not keep up.

01:26:15: They are more open.

01:26:17: They are a little more lush.

01:26:18: That doesn't mean they can't age.

01:26:21: We've seen that, the 2015 can also age.

01:26:23: But it's a bit more, shall I say, open from the start.

01:26:27: The mouthfeel.

01:26:29: No, I actually say it differently.

01:26:31: Ours are not more open from the outset.

01:26:34: But so, en general, of all these loess-loam soils.

01:26:39: There are a few special terroirs in the Palatinate and Rheinhessen,

01:26:43: where you can actually find an analogy to the Moselle.

01:26:47: Only in a different texture from the soil, however.

01:26:50: But it's about skeletal soils, it's about texture and so on.

01:26:53: Riesling in general, as it grows in Rheinhessen and the Palatinate,

01:26:56: is a very accessible open wine.

01:26:59: So much more open than here.

01:27:01: Yes, and this...

01:27:02: ...No matter how you do it, you can't do it.

01:27:05: And it doesn't work with Botrytis either.

01:27:06: No. No.

01:27:08: So you can also make 13.5%, 14% alcohol at the Moselle.

01:27:10: But you need botrytis for that.

01:27:12: But botrytis does not make the wine more beautiful.

01:27:15: So, I'll pour the 97 again.

01:27:17: Yes, thank you very much.

01:27:18: I have to prepare this...

01:27:20: The nice thing is with the old wines,

01:27:23: you can drink them like water.

01:27:24: They don't hurt.

01:27:27: Ernie, watch out: I have already co-hosted a few episodes here,

01:27:31: but that the glasses are empty so quickly, we don't have that often.

01:27:36: It's flowing well today.

01:27:38: Thank you very much.

01:27:40: Such a “Möselchen”, "Yummy little Moselle", drinks like nothing.

01:27:41: It drinks like water.

01:27:42: Now watch out, now quick round of questions.

01:27:45: So don't think, answer quickly.

01:27:46: Which of your wines is a seducer?

01:27:50: Because we only make Riesling, it can only be a Riesling.

01:27:52: And for me it's still an old Riesling

01:27:55: in the category I have here now. Wonderful!

01:27:58: With the long yeast storage, they can age.

01:28:01: Yes, listen, we're drinking them right now too.

01:28:03: Well, if that's not a seducer.

01:28:05: Stupid question, isn't it?

01:28:07: Okay, with which personality, dead or alive,

01:28:10: would you like to have a glass of wine?

01:28:11: And if so, which one?

01:28:14: Crazy, that sounds strange now,

01:28:16: with Hölderlin.

01:28:18: I was a big fan of Hölderlin.

01:28:21: When I was a student, I found the Hölderlin...

01:28:24: ...Hölderlin, now it's getting abstract!

01:28:26: Can you quote something from Hölderlin?

01:28:27: No, but Hölderlin, who lived in a tower in Tübingen,

01:28:31: this completely introverted person,

01:28:34: who couldn't cope with the whole world,

01:28:36: and then later lived in a tower there in Tübingen.

01:28:39: I would have loved to have drunk a bottle of wine with him,

01:28:42: to hear what comes out of it.

01:28:43: But yes, he was an interesting personality.

01:28:47: I mean, all this literature that he wrote,

01:28:50: was difficult, he was quite ...

01:28:52: He basically lived in ancient Greece.

01:28:56: Although he was never there.

01:28:58: That fits in with the study again... The archaeologist comes through again.

01:29:02: I found Hölderlin's life super interesting.

01:29:07: Hölderlin, no one would think of that.

01:29:09: Hölderlin, we haven't had that here either.

01:29:13: Hölderlin is already ...

01:29:15: Do you have a secret talent?

01:29:17: A secret talent?

01:29:19: Yes.

01:29:19: And will you tell us?

01:29:20: Yes, I can drink a lot.

01:29:22: That's not a secret!

01:29:25: Is that secret...

01:29:27: ...No, even the fact that he can cook is no longer a secret.

01:29:30: Did he ever cook for you?

01:29:32: I once really had the great pleasure to experience this delight.

01:29:36: A complete menu.

01:29:38: Ernie always ran back in the kitchen after every course.

01:29:40: Great.

01:29:43: I do a lot of preparation.

01:29:45: Yes, otherwise it wouldn't work.

01:29:47: If you could have a superpower, what would it be?

01:29:51: To make great wine.

01:29:53: Yes, good, but you're already doing that. Oooohhhhh...

01:29:55: No, that's just ...

01:29:57: That's the crazy thing:

01:29:59: There's a big deficit with a lot of big winemakers.

01:30:02: At some point they become, shall we say,

01:30:04: very praised or get big points and stuff.

01:30:07: But then they stop somehow.

01:30:09: Because they say, now I've done it.

01:30:11: Do you think you've stopped?

01:30:12: No, I think this 100-point wine,

01:30:16: you can never actually reach that.

01:30:19: But you can always try, try to get better every year.

01:30:22: The only problem is when you try to get better,

01:30:25: it's like an exponential curve.

01:30:26: We all know how to make good wine for the first 70 percent.

01:30:30: But for the last 20 percent in this exponential curve

01:30:34: you actually have to invest 100, 200, 300 percent more energy,

01:30:39: than for the first 70 percent.

01:30:41: And for the last percents, so I think you should never give up,

01:30:45: to want to make a great wine, because when it's too late,

01:30:48: when you say everything is great, then you can't get any better.

01:30:52: And I think you can always get a little bit better.

01:30:54: To think about it.

01:30:57: And if you only think about it.

01:30:59: Bernie and I, my old cellar master,

01:31:01: who has been with me for 40 years this year.

01:31:03: We still discuss an incredible amount, where I say,

01:31:06: Bernie, I don't know, you could... Bernie is a bit annoyed.

01:31:10: From you, because again and again, yes.

01:31:13: Yes, always, because it's been so long now...

01:31:15: Yes, but, can't we...

01:31:19: Can we just... ...couldn't you do a little...

01:31:21: I think that if you... ...a little bit now,

01:31:25: I could imagine, we could get something out of it.

01:31:28: So I think you should never give up,

01:31:31: and you have to be able to change.

01:31:33: And that's what we have.

01:31:34: We certainly weren't famous for dry wines.

01:31:36: But in the last 20 years, for the Mosel,

01:31:39: we actually changed very, very much,

01:31:42: that today we are known for our dry wines.

01:31:47: But just, and I'll tell you,

01:31:48: but that was also a process of 20 years,

01:31:51: just leave the wines in the barrel, two years in the barrel and whatever else,

01:31:54: that's a process, where I say,

01:31:57: you have to do that for 20 years first.

01:31:58: Then you have 20 vintages,

01:32:00: then you can taste them all side by side.

01:32:02: And then you say that's how it works in that vintage,

01:32:04: it doesn't work so well in that vintage,

01:32:05: then like that, and after 20 years you take that one more like this,

01:32:09: and then you start to do the “fine tuning”.

01:32:12: That simply takes a long time,

01:32:14: that's why we all have to live to become 100 years old,

01:32:15: because we need at least that.

01:32:17: And then we also have...

01:32:18: The older we get, the older we have to get.

01:32:22: And then 20 years ago I did this thing

01:32:24: with the "Tradition", which are not even on the market yet.

01:32:27: What else do you have in the pipeline?

01:32:28: I'm not saying that yet.

01:32:30: We'll all find out later.

01:32:33: You noticed,

01:32:36: how he drummed?

01:32:38: There's more to come.

01:32:39: But that's the last one,

01:32:40: because I don't want to grow old forever either.

01:32:42: Yes, Aunt Mie, our old Aunt Mie,

01:32:45: has turned 104 years old.

01:32:46: You can't say that now...

01:32:47: ...Then she got upset about it,

01:32:51: that they took away her driver's license at 100.

01:32:53: No, but my projects, they always take 10, 20 years.

01:32:57: Okay, I understand.

01:32:57: But I can already hint at it,

01:33:00: Residual sweet wines, nobody wants Beerenauslese anymore

01:33:02: and Trockenbeerenauslesen.

01:33:03: This is a dead business.

01:33:05: These highly sweet wines, so even Sauternes has a problem,

01:33:08: Tokaj also has a problem,

01:33:10: because they are making more and more dry wines, because nobody wants the others anymore.

01:33:13: But now I've discovered something,

01:33:15: I'll put it this way, that's how it used to be done.

01:33:18: I now leave my Trockenbeerenauslesen

01:33:21: 10 years in the barrel

01:33:22: on the lees. Hallelujah.

01:33:24: I have the 2017 right now,

01:33:26: “Wehlener Sonnenuhr TBA”, I just tried it.

01:33:28: And they are super elegant.

01:33:30: They are no longer so fat and so thick.

01:33:31: But that means: Cold.

01:33:33: Yes, yes, cold.

01:33:34: Well, there's no other way.

01:33:36: What does “cold” mean?

01:33:38: The problem is, it happens very quickly,

01:33:41: then it starts to post-ferment.

01:33:44: Yes, but they also went down further.

01:33:46: They are not at 6% alcohol then,

01:33:49: but at 5.5%.

01:33:50: They are no longer at 8% alcohol.

01:33:52: But you chill them?

01:33:53: But even the 8% will not inhibit sufficiently,

01:33:55: if you do not keep it at a stable temperature.

01:33:57: Sure, the sugar also preserves.

01:34:00: But they have stopped fermenting on their own.

01:34:01: And that's always important,

01:34:02: that it stops fermenting on its own.

01:34:04: Then the botrytis gets,

01:34:06: what do you call it, this bacterial character,

01:34:09: that it then influences the yeast

01:34:12: and it can no longer continue to ferment. Agreed.

01:34:14: It gets such a beautiful elegance.

01:34:16: But that's another one of those projects.

01:34:17: Sorry about the quick round of questions. All good.

01:34:18: My wife always says: Yes, you're talking in

01:34:22: 3 minutes 5 wild boars dead.

01:34:25: Just stop it!

01:34:27: I think we should drink to that.

01:34:30: Very good, Ernie.

01:34:33: That's world class.

01:34:35: Which wine impressed you the most,

01:34:37: recently,

01:34:37: apart from the ones we're drinking tonight? Oh, in the last time?

01:34:42: For me “Würzgarten” 1997

01:34:43: and “Würzgarten” Reserve 2018

01:34:47: are actually for me

01:34:49: now sustainable from the last months,

01:34:52: the two wines I want to pick out,

01:34:54: not because we're sitting here right now, but

01:34:55: because I think it's very, very cool.

01:34:58: That's awesome too.

01:35:00: I am also flashed.

01:35:00: That's right, it's a flash.

01:35:02: I am also flashed.

01:35:04: Aahhh, delicious “Möselchen”, "Yummi little Moselle"!

01:35:05: On that note...

01:35:05: ...with this delicious “Möselchen” I would like to...

01:35:10: ...yes, delicious “Yummy little Burgund”.

01:35:11: Delicious “Burgundy”, exactly.

01:35:13: It was nice that you were there.

01:35:15: Thank you very, very much. You're welcome.

01:35:16: I'll say Ernie now, too.

01:35:17: Everyone says Ernie. Why do they actually say Ernie?

01:35:19: I have no idea.

01:35:19: My full name is Ernst Friedrich Maria Francois Paul.

01:35:22: Okay, Ernie.

01:35:23: Exactly!

01:35:25: And my father always

01:35:27: called me “Ernfried”.

01:35:29: And I hated that so much. “Ernfried”. What kind of fucking name is that!

01:35:33: That's why he studied archaeology.

01:35:34: But “Ernfried”, that's even worse than “Hölderlin”.

01:35:39: Thank you very much, Ernie, for being there.

01:35:40: It was great fun.

01:35:42: We could actually chat for another 3-4 hours.

01:35:44: We wouldn't run out of topics.

01:35:45: We still have wine.

01:35:47: Thank you very much. Chin Chin.

01:35:48: Cheers, cheers.

01:35:49: See you next time.